I didn’t leave the left. The left, left me.

[GenerativeAIBot]

Stop me if you have already heard this the last few days, I am trying to make sense of how I feel about Trump and other right leaning wins:

“Woke” issues being pushed to where they have been, has empowered the right by giving them something real and legitimate to campaign against. Something more than their usual transparently false bogeymen.

In general, Authoritarianism, compelled speech, no debate. Specifically men in women’s sports, in women’s changing rooms, unfettered immigration, being asked to ignore the evidence in front of our eyes.

This is happening across the world, Italy, France, Germany, USA, UK.

I remain entirely committed to progressive taxation, a social safety net, collective bargaining, workers rights, public schooling and health services as well as the rights of everyone to live contented, unmolested lives.

I reject identity politics in their entirety. For example, I consider terms like “Woman of colour” to be the epitome of divisive, racist, sexist thought patterns that seeks to infantilise people and move their locus of control from internal to external. Disempowering people and making them victims.

I didn’t leave the left. The left left me.

Reasonable?

Actually, I disagree with that because you don't get the left. You don't understand that to us o speak for myself here . It isn't just about an argument, it isn't even about a debate, it's fundamentally that we are so empathetic, as people we could not see other people being abused and hurt etc, and possibly, because we really believe in justice

How was ES goading you? I must have missed that. I did see her asking you to put a figure on your assertions, but that’s not goading, that’s her asking you to justify your stance. A normal part of discussions such as this, no?

Do they not really believe that Donald Trump is racist?

Of course his voters know he is racist. And a sexist, and criminal, etc.

But they don't prioritise those things. They prioritise their financial circumstances.
Trump talked about how poor they were feeling.

The left are prioritising every kind of equality except economic and financial equality. That is the issue.

Empathy is a fundamentally important value to hold in mind when taking policy positions that affect everyone. It has to be taken with other factors, such as reason, logic, pragmatism, however, and it needs to be applied to everyone across the board, without fear or favour. It’s no good elevating one group’s concerns, out of empathy, while ignoring the impact on others and failing to view them with empathy.

I'm much more left leaning now in my old age, I'd have said I was more to the right when younger.
I've become much more left because of doing what I've said - reading both sides, challenging my thinking etc. Which is why I think it's important not to get stuck in echo chambers.
It's a bit of a sweeping generalisation to say that "the left don't understand the right" - people are all individuals, you know! Not a hive mind.
Which is why I don't think it's helpful to call people on the right "dim" or whatever, and belittle them for their views.
I will never understand or want to tolerate racism though, or understand why people don't want a more equal, kinder society.
Benefits people to stay "at the top",I suppose.
Scared of others getting "too much" equality maybe.
Heard a saying "When you're used to privilege, equality seems like oppression".
Think there's some truth in that sadly.

Because equality for trans identified males means allowing them in places where women have lost their rights to privacy and safety. Where historically women were granted these rights to allow them to live equally alongside men.

There was a case of a lesbian couple who requested sperm from the NHS.. 'equality' should then grant male couples access to a surrogate, right?

My children go to school with other children. Who gets final say what's on the curriculum? I don't want my child being told by adults they can change sex. But other parents are very keen that my child and their children be told that.

There are too many competing interest groups to be able to accommodate the wishes and interests of all. It's just not possible. There are too many disagreements, we can't decide on what a woman is, we can't even define or agree on when a human life begins and what it is. These are very fundamental disagreements and when so many people have differing views on what would be equal and fair it leaves you with two huge problems- firstly, what is the most legitimate process for deciding what is right and just in these instances, and assuming you can - how then do you deal with those who disagree, who find themselves last among the supposed equals. Authoritarianism culminating in brute force, that's your inevitable end point.

Part of what you are saying, I agree with. If there were a left leaning alternative to the Labour party, I'd consider it too. My core values haven't changed. But I can't get on-board with the current party who really doesn't want people to employ critical thinking or if you don't follow blindly, you're out and othered.

Except for that is rubbish, you can actually have both. Because under biden, the economy was doing much better, and there were more jobs than under trump. The tariff that Trump are going to propose is going to put an average of $4000 per person. He's also gonna make it so that the healthcare, which under Biden, made insulin $35, not $800. That's gonna go back up. There is so much more if you look into it. But unfortunately, sound bites make it sounds like donald.Trump gives a s* about the poor when he doesn't

You assume the right want people to be abused and hurt? I strongly refute that and would suggest that the left are cause hurt and abuse. It's like a mirror image.

Maybe the right doesn't, but it seems to me that a lot of the voting records of say the conservatives don't seem to care about some minorities, do they

@Annabella92 the poster you're quoting didn't even bring up trans issues, they were talking about racism!
What's your stance on that? How it's empowering and emboldening the racists?

@Tandora Pregnant people? There's no such thing as 'pregnant people'. There's just people who damn well want their cake and want to eat it too.

There's no such thing as 'pregnant people'.

There is, it's just that all of them are women.

Yes, you can have both (eventually, we hope).
But what do you prioritise first? What do you (as a politician up for election) talk about most? What will appeal most deeply to the most people?
Answer: their money.

If the economy was doing better under Biden, people didn't feel it. And Harris didn't talk about it, and even if she did talk about it, people didn't believe it.

The left will never win on wider 'equality' issues. They can only win by getting people to believe they will be better off as individuals under the left.

Which is why the left needs to drop all the so called "woke" stuff and go back to talking about money.
The right-wing press will have a massive hissy-fit at the merest hint of any adjustment of sources of taxation or re-distribution of wealth, just as they have done in the UK in recent weeks. But most people know when they are better off.

Can you give an example where 1% of population was given more rights than the rest?

So you think it’s divisive to point out that in certain areas there is a conflict of interest between trans rights and women’s rights? Do you think such conflict doesn’t exist?
If transwomen want to use women’s single sex spaces because they feel affirmed in their perception of themselves by doing so, whereas women prefer to keep these spaces single sex because they feel safer this way, then it sort of is a “us versus them” situation, wether we like it or not.

What I don't like is the creeping authoritarianism where we're expected to think in exactly the same way and have all of the correct "leftie" opinions at all times or we're vile right-wing bigots. It's not really a traditoinally left-wing way to behave, is it?

Except nobody expects you to do that. Nobody is stopping people having opinions and different views.

If someone is calling you a right wing bigot then you might want to reflect on which opinions you hold and why they might be seen as bigoted. If you are happy you are not being bigoted then carry on as you are.

I keep hearing about those poor innocent people being charged for just voicing an opinion on the internet. That does sound terrible until you realise the "opinion" is that someone should burn down a hotel full of asylum seekers.

The term "woke" is used as an insult, to shut down debate. The far right first weaponised it as a retort to them being called racist. Over time if has moved to being used by the centre right to push back on any perceived injustice when marginalised communities began to have a voice. Now it seem it is thrown at anyone who has an opinion that is even slightly left of centre.

I've been accused of being woke. I believe marginalised groups shouldn't be discriminated against. I believe we as a nation have a responsibility to support refugees from counties whose struggles are rooted in problems our own nation played a hand in. I believe people in poverty should be given a hand up. I believe children who are struggling in education should be supported to reach their potential rather than being excluded from school for bad behaviour. All of these things will not only help individuals but will lead to a much stronger economy and stable society.

I believe a man who has been convicted of felonies, admits to grabbing women by the pussy (and has been found liable for sexual assault), who has displayed and expressed concerning fascistic tendencies and has no real plan for improving society, has no business being the president of one of the most powerful countries in the world. If that makes me woke, I have to ask, why wouldn't people think these are all decent views to hold.

Inevitability when I drill down in to it, those who complain about woke have two main issues. Immigration and trans rights. Solving any issue with immigration will not fix our broken economy, and there is undoubtedly a common sense solution to the trans fight if both sides would just sit and talk to each other rather than having extreme loud voices at either end of the spectrum throwing nonsense arguments about.

The problem isn't left and right, the problem is the polarisation in politics which has stopped us working together as a society to find a solution to the problems which are holding us back.

thanks for putting this better than me.

Where did pp say trans people don’t have the right to exist?

FWIW I am literally here to be challenged, I enjoy it, I like to make sure my reasoning stands up to scrutiny

Yes, this is me now too

I though I'd already been clear. Racism unacceptable, and I am very against violence.

We can't work together because we want to go in different directions.

Some people believe in the open global society and others believe in small homogenous societies. There is no way to compromise as the end goal is opposite sides

I come back to this not for me but to counter some of the scaremongering about immigration spread by people seeking to villainise immigrants and asylum seekers. And I'm not going to be pinned down by posters who only seek to goad.

There is plenty this country could do to provide more safe routes for desperate people fleeing conflict without it resulting in 'unfettered' immigration. And indeed it has, but mainly for people from specific countries like Ukraine and Hong Kong. The issue is largely the fear and hostility towards the most vulnerable people who tend to be brown. No-one has said 'open the borders and let everyone in', but more could and should be done. Labour won't provide these routes due to the dominant, toxic anti-immigrant rhetoric that has taken hold and is perpetuated here.

So people die in their desperate attempts to flee. I wonder what the answer some of these posters think is? Just leave people in war-torn countries to it, not our problem?

Trust me, I read widely and am a natural cynic, which allows me to formulate my view. I don’t believe, wholesale, everything I read.

I do broadly echo the OPs starting post though. The fact that some posters on here are knee deep in trans rights amply supports one reason why Trump will be the next POTUS.

The vast majority simply don’t give a rodents derrière about it - they have more pressing daily challenges.

But hey, as long as some on the left continue fixating on the issue, the longer they will remain out of power.