I didn’t leave the left. The left, left me.

[GenerativeAIBot]

Stop me if you have already heard this the last few days, I am trying to make sense of how I feel about Trump and other right leaning wins:

“Woke” issues being pushed to where they have been, has empowered the right by giving them something real and legitimate to campaign against. Something more than their usual transparently false bogeymen.

In general, Authoritarianism, compelled speech, no debate. Specifically men in women’s sports, in women’s changing rooms, unfettered immigration, being asked to ignore the evidence in front of our eyes.

This is happening across the world, Italy, France, Germany, USA, UK.

I remain entirely committed to progressive taxation, a social safety net, collective bargaining, workers rights, public schooling and health services as well as the rights of everyone to live contented, unmolested lives.

I reject identity politics in their entirety. For example, I consider terms like “Woman of colour” to be the epitome of divisive, racist, sexist thought patterns that seeks to infantilise people and move their locus of control from internal to external. Disempowering people and making them victims.

I didn’t leave the left. The left left me.

Reasonable?

This is my position too.

But you are just stereotyping the left. In general, because you can have that debate and in fact, it is happening and still be on the left. I don't agree with everything some muslims do for example I don't agree with everything islam stands for. I'd also agree with what some cultures do, but it can be said in a much bigger debate. But what's happening.It is that people on the right are taking that debate over and I don't agree with that stance

Haven't read anything other than the opening post but I agree.
I stand with what the left used to be - before they abandoned critical thinking and free speech and started championing identity politics and authoritarian orthodoxy and purity spirals and ideology over reality. And 'positive discrimination' over equality, which has bubbled over into a really horrible attitude that it's alright to harm/dehumanise people as long as they're the right people.

ETA this doesn't mean I stand with the right either, the left has just become a horrible photo-negative of it.

They are not inspirational examples.
They are examples of how the right does whatever it needs to do to get power and stay in power. They are quite happy to adopt whatever policies they need to, if it means winning.

This is a bit like the prison cell question which unstuck the pp

Given you won't answer but have countered with a question I'll answer still.

What you are proposing isn't feasible, no comparable country has or will set up solely legal routes and Labour won't either. Can you name a country that has done this?

The issue which you've sidestepped is that you cannot meet the number of people who would want to enter in this way

You could stop all trafficking and set up controlled humanitarian routes but currently voters won't go for what that would entail, eg changing the law or using a deterrent. So we've voted for higher crossings, risk (especially for women and children) and deaths instead.

These deaths will keep climbing and I can't imagine Labour is that immune for it not to be an issue for them.

No, that's not what they meant (happy to be corrected by the poster if they actually did though!)
I read it as it's easy to get stuck in echo chambers, and only consume articles with a bias that fit your view, and only hear voices that agree with you.
It's important to consume a wide range of media, so you get a balance of left and right biases.
If you think you might be in an echo chamber, maybe worth reflecting and reassessing.

It is the left doing culture war rather than organic change because it's just been comprehensively rejected in America, by the people. While the leftist pundits are coping and seething and scratching their heads wondering why Trump could possibly have won two terms, and how could Brexit have happened and why did people keep voting Conservative and why are the right making gains across Europe... the people don't want it. And the left are determined to keep trying to impose their agenda on populations who don't want it by stealth or by force. So don't pretend it's the right that are obsessed with it, it's literally your raison d'etre

I see the resort to personal attack from the left.

Didn't take long when unable to answer a question.

So you mean, because people are fighting for equality? Of course, they're never gonna stop. Why would you want to stop that? And just because people have rejected it, people can jump off a f cliff, and you know what? I would not be stand there and saying please don't do that. Please don't do that because at the end of the day, this isn't about. What people want this is about understanding that there is always going to be a fight for justice

Tofu, with respect - are you sure you're consuming a varied enough media diet yourself?

When can you be confident you are?

Whose justice?

Unfortunately that rather undermines your stance... its fairly fundamental to your argument, if it's fully feasible and thought through you would stand by it with confidence allowing the facts to speak for themselves. If you can't even argue the point then you can't be surprised when others don't hold your position

Equality and justice for everybody, because everybody is equal and that is a fight that the right don't want they want to go backwards as Kamala says. And that is true, they want to go back to a time where black people in America were lynched, and yet some black people will vote for Trump, of course, they will But they don't understand that a lot of the hate is on that side. Do they not really believe that Donald Trump is racist? When he would not allow black people to rent our apartments back in tge day. When donald trump has spoke and been around the kkk and white nationslist Endorsement and project 2025 with clear mandates against minorities etc.
Even in the uk to

Unlike you I have answered your question. You are angry because you cannot answer a simple one on numbers. That is your issue not mine.

You have come onto the thread swinging insults with 'dim' and 'confused', is that your whole thing?

It's only goading if you know the answer strikes a fatal blow to the point you're trying to make.

I listen to both left and right news outlets, I like to see posts that disagree with me and don't just confirm me and my thinking, I think it's healthy to have your views challenged.
I don't think anyone can be perfectly sure that they're consuming enough equally from either "side", just regularly check themselves.
As in stuff like "is this what I really believe" or sit and think if we read something that contradicts our view/conflicts it instead of trying to bend what we're seeing to fit in.

This is no longer a debate but a playground shouting match. Love the dramatic turn of phrase though.

I bid thee farewell. 🤗

No. Nobody wants to see anybody lynched. And if they do and ever acted upon it I would hope they'd swiftly dealt with.

Equality and justice for everybody is simply not possible, and it's the height of naivety and ignorance to pretend that it is. All you can do is negotiate trade offs with those you govern.

People on the left always lash out at the simple question, and go for personal attack which is now deleted, but there is a reason no comparable country will propose what they do.

It's not feasible.

I get you're passionate about politics - we all are, hence our contribution to the thread. But you're repeatedly missing the message from people who DO vote Labour, genuinely, that we're fed up. This doesn't make us " bad" people, or reform voters in disguise or stupid for not " getting it". This is how Labour lose the next election, by ignoring their electorate - those of us who have been loyal to the party for decades and put our cross in their box to help get them to power in the first place... You know us silly lot!

I don't think many of the left truly understand the right. But I do think the right genuinely understand the left. I think that will always be a strategic disadvantage to the left.

Sorry you simply can't say nobody there are many good old boys in the USA that want you go back make america great again to what time before the 60s maybe when there wasn't equality.
Why is equality not possible we have moved on alot its not gonna be when you have the right making people like many on here believe that the ills off society is because if immigrants same old shite since history when in reality it's more than that

I get that you are fed up this isn't really about labour you know i don't agree with everything they do, but I will never ever vote for anybody on the right. If a new party came along, that would literally get voted in and wouldn't be a waste, and that was on the left that might be different to labour.I would probably consider it as well.
The point is the the reason why some people are saying they are fed up to me comes across as hateful reasons and not logical and very much reform talking points.
The fact is, if we want to talk about migration, causing an issue we need to also talk about that there has been a fundamental lack of infrastructure investment in this country, and yet immigrants do actually contribute a hell of a lot to this country. We have a very low birth rate. the thing is, this is the problem, it's all very nuanced.
Also, thanks for your comment. Because I am passionate about politics.