I didn’t leave the left. The left, left me.

[GenerativeAIBot]

Stop me if you have already heard this the last few days, I am trying to make sense of how I feel about Trump and other right leaning wins:

“Woke” issues being pushed to where they have been, has empowered the right by giving them something real and legitimate to campaign against. Something more than their usual transparently false bogeymen.

In general, Authoritarianism, compelled speech, no debate. Specifically men in women’s sports, in women’s changing rooms, unfettered immigration, being asked to ignore the evidence in front of our eyes.

This is happening across the world, Italy, France, Germany, USA, UK.

I remain entirely committed to progressive taxation, a social safety net, collective bargaining, workers rights, public schooling and health services as well as the rights of everyone to live contented, unmolested lives.

I reject identity politics in their entirety. For example, I consider terms like “Woman of colour” to be the epitome of divisive, racist, sexist thought patterns that seeks to infantilise people and move their locus of control from internal to external. Disempowering people and making them victims.

I didn’t leave the left. The left left me.

Reasonable?

How does the hate you refer to manifest itself?

Some examples please.

We get it. You think men’s feelings are more important than women’s safety. And you’re perfectly happy to flood the country with unlimited numbers of every type of immigrant because they are more important than British citizens.

you don’t think it makes sense to protect women and children and keep the nation running well.

loud and clear.

The thing is. I do want the Equality Act clarified but I voted Labour on other issues. You can't assume voters are a monolith who support everything a party stands for. I voted on what I saw as the least worst option. If Starmer hadn't backpedaled on on Labour's previously much more twaw stance I wouldn't have voted for them at all.

Several posters on here have given examples of what it is they have issues with (authoritarian attitudes and unwillingness to listen to opposing views, conflict of interest between trans rights and women’s rights, just as an example), but go in, keep telling yourself it’s all about not wanting to pay tax.

How do the organisations you mentioned, of which there are plenty, get around this?

If someone with a GRC enters a toilet, no one will know as it's illegal to ask for one.

What happens in reality so there are as you believe many single sex changing rooms and toilets. What do those organisations do if someone with a GRC enters?

If memory serves, the Brexit campaign focused quite heavily on the fears about legal, EU immigration. It was "Eastern Europeans" that was constantly thrown around whenever Nigel spoke, no?

I rather suspect you are right. The other tell-tale is that they invariably bang on about the 14-year Tory rule, which indicates they are net beneficiaries of State largesse.

That’s fine of course, but let’s not pretend they don’t have a fiscal axe to grind.

We get it. You don’t like foreign people or trans people . You don’t like them to the extent that you are prepared to vote for people like Trump.

Loud and clear.

Foreign people?

Wow.

Haven’t RTFT, apologies but I agree with the OP.
I was only saying the other day how I’ve moved from the left to right of centre. The last time Trump was voted in, I was gutted. This time not so
much!
Its funny how people being too radical about their political view points just ends up pushing people further away

Thread poll.

YANBU 77%

Says it all really.

yes- immigrants - foreign people. It’s called xenophobia. It’s very common. Because foreigners seem different. Like trans people. And people don’t like things that are different , it makes them feel uncomfortable.

You’re equating anti-Zionism to anti semitism

Maybe it's because they have completely abandoned everything and anyone else on the altar of trans. Even the Greens were more concerned about this in Scotland than the environment.

LOL.

I have worked all round the world. I work in an international environment. My DC attend international school and speak three languages.
I am not the only one.

Behave yourself.

And yet here you are supporting trump because you don’t like immigrants 🤷🏼‍♀️

I’m glad you have conceded at least that there are important social and cultural elements that drive sexual and gender based violence, and it’s not something that’s coded into one’s sec chromosomes.

these aren't currently needed because of some theory-woo

Can we please stop calling support for trans people names like “theory-woo”? It’s really unpleasant and gets us nowhere. Trans people are people. They are not a “theory”. This is not a superficial or trivial subject.

There’s the left for you - belittling and telling people what they think. That’s just one reason Trump prevailed.

I support the right of Americans, and the electorate in any democracy to vote as they wish. What I don’t do is bang on about perceived electoral injustice.

Re your immigration strawman - rampant immigration has not worked in the west. Surely you can see that? As to the messaging - I don’t agree with the demonising of refugees, but I do believe people should assimilate and abide by the host nations laws and culture. I also believe in being a net contributor and providing for family etc.

Now tell me - do you have an issue with that?

I’m not telling people what they think. My summary was a response to the OP who made it clear that her two biggest issues are the left’s support for trans people and desire “to flood the country with unlimited numbers of every type of immigrant because they are more important than British citizens”.

”rampant immigration has not worked in the west. Surely you can see that?”

what do you mean by “rampant immigration” and how has it “not worked”?

but I do believe people should assimilate and abide by the host nations laws and culture. I also believe in being a net contributor and providing for family etc.

Are you suggesting that immigrants are criminals who do not support their families? And what do you mean by “abide by the host culture”? Can you give an example of this?

That letter ends in bold, and in support. Why not focus on that? Because it is in support?

There is no straightforward balance, but we have come to the view that if ‘sex’ is defined as biological sex for the purposes of EqA, this would bring greater legal clarity in eight areas.

Can we please stop saying the issue is trans people? It’s men being in women’s spaces and sports. It’s children being told they’re in the wrong body and potentially being put onto irreversible medical pathways. No one is speaking about transmen are they (females).

It’s not difficult.

This is all true.

Brexit from where I was stood appeared to be primarily about wanting secure borders and national sovereignty.

Would you say then that voters perhaps care more about cultural security than economic security?

Do you not see that it’s a problem to suggest that male violence against women, and women’s subjugation to men is coded in biology? As if it were a natural phenomenon rather than a social problem? do you not see that that type of reasoning is the entire basis of the patriarchy? That it’s the natural and order of things that men have power and women don’t?

The "natural order of things" is a concept that needs close examination.
Humans are primates. We are basically a type of animal. So to look at what is "natural" it is helpful to look at other primates.
Yes, their complex societies are built around sex differences. And the males dominate. The strong males also dominate weaker males.
And "top" females also dominate "lower" females.
Primate society is inherently hierarchical, and very frequently violent.

But just because human behaviour is "natural" do we think it is correct or moral or the right way to behave? Absolutely not. Humans are not merely animals.

It is "natural" for a tribe of primates to abandon a disabled baby, or fight against another tribe invading their territory, or ostracise an individual who looks different, etc. This does not mean that ableism, racism, xenophobia etc. are acceptable because they are "natural".

Just because the patriarchy is rooted in biology, doesn't mean we accept it. We fight it, just as we fight ableism and racism and ageism.
But to fight patriarchy, we fight the social manifestations of our biological heritage. We don't fight the facts of biology and pretend that humans can change sex.

The issue is trans people, trans women specifically (because people are particularly upset by trans femininity particularly). Trans men are often ignored in the conversation, but people also get angry when trans masculine experiences are acknowledged (eg use of inclusive language like “pregnant people”) , and are trying to remove their right to access essential healthcare.