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imane khelif has been allegedly confirmed to be a man.

959 replies

Cartwrightandson · 04/11/2024 13:15

A leaked French medical report from 2023 has confirmed that Algerian boxer Imane Khelif is male.

Top endocrinologists found that Khelif has XY chromosomes, no uterus, internal testicles, and a "micropenis."

The report was drafted in June of 2023 via a collaboration between the Kremlin-Bicêtre hospital in Paris, France, and the Mohamed Lamine Debaghine hospital in Algiers, Algeria. Drafted by expert endocrinologists Soumaya Fedala and Jacques Young, the report reveals that Khelif is impacted by 5-alpha reductase deficiency, a disorder of sexual development that is only found in biological males.

reduxx.info/algerian-boxer-imane-khelif-has-xy-chromosomes-and-testicles-french-algerian-medical-report-admits/

OP posts:
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32
TriangleLight · 06/11/2024 17:42

MarieDeGournay · 06/11/2024 17:26

That's right, and in the meantime Khélif bulked up to the next weight category - something that having been through male puberty made possible, because he was able to put on the extra kilos as muscle.

Amy Broadhurst tried to do the same thing, and it didn't work because not having been through male puberty, she couldn't build up muscle, and when she put on the extra kilos, she just lost condition and strength instead.

BTW the photo posted further up is not Khélif, as is made clear in the link.
Not only does it not look like him, the badge on the shirt is Moroccan, and during the Olympics it was suggested that the whole IK-is-a-man thing was cooked up by Morocco to discredit Algeria and prevent their Star Turn and National Icon from getting a medal.

Actually, the more worrying thing is that it’s easier for men to cut weight, meaning they can fight much smaller opponents at the same weight

EveDeservesBetter · 06/11/2024 18:13

BTW the photo posted further up is not Khélif, as is made clear in the link.
Not only does it not look like him, the badge on the shirt is Moroccan, and during the Olympics it was suggested that the whole IK-is-a-man thing was cooked up by Morocco to discredit Algeria and prevent their Star Turn and National Icon from getting a medal.

Yes I thought it was odd that photo was part of the link. As explained in the text:

"Below is Khadija El-Mardi of Morocco, for example, who likely would be accused of failing to meet this supposed "western feminine beauty standard." El-Mardi won gold in the Heavyweight category at the 2023 World Championships. She is advancing to the quarter-finals in Paris as we speak. She's one of the best female boxers out there.

El-Mardi is a woman. Her features and tall stature literally do not matter. She is biologically female. Sex testing would return an XX.
Women are adult human females. This is true regardless of their external appearance.
Likewise, men are adult human males. This is true regardless of abnormalities or defects in their secondary sex characteristics."

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/11/2024 20:55

murasaki · 06/11/2024 16:33

I found it interesting, if not in any way surprising, that the Guardian made no mention of the report a couple of days ago, and are only reporting on this man's challenge to it.

Quite.

Suusue · 06/11/2024 22:02

No way on this earth did I ever think that he was a she. Everything about him screamed male. The way he walked , dressed, spoke, gestured ,boxed. Everything. So no surprise there then. Should give back the gold medal.

NewstartOct2024 · 06/11/2024 22:13

FlirtsWithRhinos · 06/11/2024 17:04

@NonPlayerCharacter

Nobody believes this shite. Nobody. We just need to know why so many people are willing to throw away womens safety, equal opportunities (there are far fewer opportunities and much less money in women's sports so they're disadvantaged anyway) to uphold a delusional male self image. That's the heart of this matter.

Because they are focussing on what the man needs not how it impacts the women. They go in with the presumption that he should be accomodated by women, the only question being how.

That's why we get people saying "it's all very complicated" and "how can you be so awful to this poor suffering person". Because for them the question is "at what point is this man so far removed from other men we might as well consider him a woman?" or "what is a fair way to balance this man's need to be included with women with the impact on women?". And a fair answer to those questions is indeed complicated. It's so complicated it is impossible.

But put the women and what they need in the centre and all that complexity melts away.

"Are women the same as weak men, or men with surgery, or men with low testosterone" . No. They are a different sex to men.
"Do women benefit from including men in their sports?" No. They lose out.

This.

Its always about tgecnan, hus feelings and never about what women want, feelings or safety. Men trump women, even when it comes to pretending to be a woman. Its disgraceful so many fawning women suck up to men's bull.

ChateauMargaux · 06/11/2024 22:19

Kellie Harrington of the wonderful victory dance with the XX sign at the end... she knew!!!

ChateauMargaux · 06/11/2024 22:24

Every time I see the quotes about being born a woman, lived as a woman, competed as a woman... I see Thomas Bach saying 'Some people want to own the definition of who is a woman'.

Bloody hell Thomas... it sure as hell isn't yours to make up whatever definition fits your inexplicable narrative.

Helleofabore · 07/11/2024 09:16

Another article for all those who say, ‘but he gets beaten sometimes’ or deny/dismiss the danger.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344774758_Biomechanical_assessment_of_various_punching_techniques

Helleofabore · 07/11/2024 09:45

And some more information in this Telegraph article by Oliver Brown about the IBA tests published overnight.

https://archive.is/A3hOz

Three months on, as the IOC pours scorn on fresh reporting in France about “unverified documents whose origin cannot be confirmed”, the IBA is mounting a staunch defence of the accuracy of its testing procedures.

“It was a chromosome test, to check for XX or XY, and these two boxers didn’t meet the eligibility criteria, because they both fell into the XY category,” Chris Roberts, the IBA chief executive, tells Telegraph Sport. “They were tested twice, in 2022 and 2023. When you receive a secondary laboratory test with the same results, demonstrating that both boxers are ineligible, it’s clear. What comes with it is our obligation and our duty of care to the other athletes.”

and this

But the IBA letter does spell out the specifics, stating: “Chromosome analysis reveals male karyotype.” Imaging is also included, for both Khelif and Lin, of an X and Y chromosome, illustrating that the tests were conducted by a Delhi laboratory certified by the Swiss-based International Organisation for Standardisation. The problem is that the IOC refuses to accept its legitimacy, adamant that they were conducted arbitrarily.

The IBA have also offerred to pay for yet another test is Khelif wants it.

quantumbutterfly · 07/11/2024 09:59

It's such a mystery why Khalife would not want to clear up any misunderstanding.....and what about the other contentious boxer Lin, who seems to have avoided the same spotlight.

They both won gold didn't they? Lin's outrageous back of the head punches when their opponent was turned to the ropes should not be forgotten - but I suppose if you're cheating anyway, rules are optional.

PurpleSparkledPixie · 07/11/2024 10:01

Interesting, thanks Helle.

I suspect the legal stuff will be based on technicalities rather than if he is xx. It will be against those leaking the information, ie personal data of any type, as well as those saying he shouldn't be fighting women despite the Olympic board saying passports matter over reality, so it will be based on eligibility not xx. Wonder if he will be able to suppress any xx tests in court so legally they don't consider it whilst deciding on not/guilty (fruit of a poisonous tree type stuff)?

CherryFlan · 07/11/2024 11:49

PurpleSparkledPixie · 07/11/2024 10:01

Interesting, thanks Helle.

I suspect the legal stuff will be based on technicalities rather than if he is xx. It will be against those leaking the information, ie personal data of any type, as well as those saying he shouldn't be fighting women despite the Olympic board saying passports matter over reality, so it will be based on eligibility not xx. Wonder if he will be able to suppress any xx tests in court so legally they don't consider it whilst deciding on not/guilty (fruit of a poisonous tree type stuff)?

There's good authority that someone's genetic make-up is private and engages Art 8 privacy rights (case called Marper) although it wasn't concerned with genes as a means of determining sex. It may be that the arguments will be over whether the principle can be extended to the question of whether a person has XX or XY genes is private.

murasaki · 07/11/2024 11:58

I think if you've put yourself in the shop window of the Olympics, your privacy regarding your chromosomes should be discounted.

Khelif is refusing to prove they are a woman because, well, he can't. if he was, he would and the furore would all go away.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 07/11/2024 12:02

murasaki · 07/11/2024 11:58

I think if you've put yourself in the shop window of the Olympics, your privacy regarding your chromosomes should be discounted.

Khelif is refusing to prove they are a woman because, well, he can't. if he was, he would and the furore would all go away.

For me it is that simple. IK can put this all to bed pretty quickly, but isn't. Doesn't take a genius to work out why but people are still falling over themselves to defend him.

If I had worked my way to the pinnacle of the Olympics and there was any ambiguity over what sex I am I'd be waving my cheek swab results from the rooftops.

People are stupid.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 07/11/2024 12:05

And yet we still sometimes slip and refer to him as "they".

SummerSnowstorm · 07/11/2024 12:08

WetBandits · 04/11/2024 13:30

I still don’t agree with the witch hunt. If Khelif reasonably believed themselves to be female and had been brought up as female since birth without knowing about the chromosomal disorder, they were not acting as a man boxing against women. Intent counts here, I think.

If they knew and still competed, that is a different story.

Edited

He would have seen his medical records at some point. Or looked in the mirror and seen the extremely clear muscle mass and build difference.
It's about the financial gain rather than the sport, there can't be any pride in winning against women knowing its the inevitable outcome.

PurpleSparkledPixie · 07/11/2024 12:13

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 07/11/2024 12:05

And yet we still sometimes slip and refer to him as "they".

I try to use whatever sex they are but due to deletions, including in real life, it is sometimes better to use they/them or just their name. That is all.

murasaki · 07/11/2024 12:15

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 07/11/2024 12:05

And yet we still sometimes slip and refer to him as "they".

Actually I used they in the first part of the sentence deliberately, to show the apparent confusion, and he in the second as it is the truth.

Datun · 07/11/2024 12:53

I'm wondering if there could be a countersuit. From women expected to fight someone who they believe is male. And it being discriminatory towards the female sex.

Because, as women, they will be more injured than if he was fighting a man. Women are clearly coming off worse in that situation.

Helleofabore · 07/11/2024 12:56

PurpleSparkledPixie · 07/11/2024 12:13

I try to use whatever sex they are but due to deletions, including in real life, it is sometimes better to use they/them or just their name. That is all.

Yes. I would rather my posts stand than to have them deleted because of pronouns. Been there and done that. the habit is very hard to break.

jeaux90 · 07/11/2024 12:59

Datun · 07/11/2024 12:53

I'm wondering if there could be a countersuit. From women expected to fight someone who they believe is male. And it being discriminatory towards the female sex.

Because, as women, they will be more injured than if he was fighting a man. Women are clearly coming off worse in that situation.

Interesting point. We have been quite successful in the UK on dealing with this nonsense via Lawfare. This would be against the IOC though right? French law in this case?

Datun · 07/11/2024 13:22

jeaux90 · 07/11/2024 12:59

Interesting point. We have been quite successful in the UK on dealing with this nonsense via Lawfare. This would be against the IOC though right? French law in this case?

I don't know how the law works. But to me, both Khelif and the IOC are culpable. They could both be sued.

I'm guessing that just because the IOC make up a rule that discriminates towards women, doesn't mean to say it can't be challenged in court

NonPlayerCharacter · 07/11/2024 13:43

Datun · 07/11/2024 13:22

I don't know how the law works. But to me, both Khelif and the IOC are culpable. They could both be sued.

I'm guessing that just because the IOC make up a rule that discriminates towards women, doesn't mean to say it can't be challenged in court

IANAL but tbh I don't know how Khelif could be held legally accountable. The IOC allows men to compete as women if they have the paperwork and presumably all athletes signed up to that. He didn't break the rules, although the rules are obviously unfit for purpose.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 07/11/2024 14:49

murasaki · 07/11/2024 12:15

Actually I used they in the first part of the sentence deliberately, to show the apparent confusion, and he in the second as it is the truth.

Yes, I was following up on that because it occurs to me as being so daft. But we do, even when someone has not only been conclusively shown to be of one sex or the other but also has said that he or she doesn't want to be called they/them/ze/whatever. As PurpleSparkledPixie said, your post can be deleted for the "wrong" pronouns even when they are the right ones. It's daffy.

Datun · 07/11/2024 15:37

NonPlayerCharacter · 07/11/2024 13:43

IANAL but tbh I don't know how Khelif could be held legally accountable. The IOC allows men to compete as women if they have the paperwork and presumably all athletes signed up to that. He didn't break the rules, although the rules are obviously unfit for purpose.

That's true, and I don't think individuals can be accountable for personal discrimination anyway.

But the IOC may be. As far as I know, it doesn't matter what the rules are, you can't have rules that discriminate.

And, I know this is only a layman, but having a rule that means women who box in the Olympics are going to get more injured than the men, looks like discrimination to me.

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