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imane khelif has been allegedly confirmed to be a man.

959 replies

Cartwrightandson · 04/11/2024 13:15

A leaked French medical report from 2023 has confirmed that Algerian boxer Imane Khelif is male.

Top endocrinologists found that Khelif has XY chromosomes, no uterus, internal testicles, and a "micropenis."

The report was drafted in June of 2023 via a collaboration between the Kremlin-Bicêtre hospital in Paris, France, and the Mohamed Lamine Debaghine hospital in Algiers, Algeria. Drafted by expert endocrinologists Soumaya Fedala and Jacques Young, the report reveals that Khelif is impacted by 5-alpha reductase deficiency, a disorder of sexual development that is only found in biological males.

reduxx.info/algerian-boxer-imane-khelif-has-xy-chromosomes-and-testicles-french-algerian-medical-report-admits/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
ChateauMargaux · 05/11/2024 22:50

IK competed in line the rules that were in place at the time.

Timeline:
1999: sex testing removed despite the overwhelming majority of women being in favour of it remaining.

2009: DSD athletes begin to appear in the female competition in athletics

2019: DSD ruling restrictions put in place for certain events in athletics.

2021: IOC state they will support trans athletes and athletes with sex variations to compete in sport in ways that affirm their identity and well-being.. but leaving the exact rules up to the individual International Federations.

2022: Led by swimming, the international federations for swimming, cycling, athletics and rowing (and others?) introduce terms about 'male puberty' into the restrictions around the female category.. protecting the XX category.

2023: International Boxing Association are relieved of the responsibility for Olympics by the IOC and the IOC will directly oversee boxing rules in the 2024 Olympics. https://olympics.com/ioc/news/joint-paris-2024-boxing-unit-ioc-statement

2024: The Paris Boxing Unit Rules define eligibility as based on passport, as it has been for the previous games.

2024: IOC press guidelines require journalists to refrain from speculating about competitors sex / gender.

The IOC wanted trans and DSD athlete's to compete in their category of identity. They knew the other major sporting federations had clarified and tightened up eligibility criteria. They choose to leave the criteria for boxing based on passport. They did not insist that the other sports follow the lead of swimming, athletes, cycling et al.. .. notably football / soccer.

It is an indefensible position but they defended it to the bitter end.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/11/2024 23:08

As if people are even reading that site, never mind believing the hate mongering bullshitters.

The story originally comes from a respected French investigative journalist. Reduxx simply broke it to a wider audience by their usual forensic reporting.

So yes people are. The game is up now, you were wrong.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/11/2024 23:09

JeremiahBullfrog · 05/11/2024 21:44

How do I know my neighbour isn't a duck transformed into a human by a wizard?

GrinWine

ZoeZee · 05/11/2024 23:10

OuterSpaceCadet · 05/11/2024 20:51

Why do you insist that deception and boundary violation is inherent to a trans identity? Do you not think there are transwomen out there that respect the sex they say they identify as?

I don't think this is supporting transwomen in the way you think it is.

Moreover, do you not think passing is an utterly cruel concept given that the vast majority simply don't? Why would you place a bar so incredibly high? Oh yeah, capitalism that's why. Instead of gender non conforming people rejecting gender altogether, trans ideology makes sure they can be forever attempting to buy their dream with the next "affirmative" surgery.

If you genuinely can't see sex you are unusual - for a woman anyway. It's a survival thing. But of course all humans are different; I have a relative who is face blind. They do accept other people do recognise faces however, and I think you need to accept that most women can tell the sex of someone else, even if you can't.

Great post! 👏🏻

Likaom · 05/11/2024 23:39

And yet they test for drugs? Isn’t testosterone a steroid drug or did they mask it? No idea, just asking x

Datun · 05/11/2024 23:44

@wombat15 can I ask why it's so very important for you to establish that some people, at some point, under some circumstances can't tell if a man is a man?

I think you acknowledge that most of the time people can tell, particularly women. But you still seem to want people to agree that there are sometimes when you can't.

Why is it important?

rosyAndMoo · 05/11/2024 23:57

You can’t blame them. They were raised female and believed to be so until she was told the results of her dna tests. You can only make decisions on the information available at the time. Now new information has emerged it’s time to determine how this moves forwards. Does she give her medals back? (Personally I think yes) does this change the way that sports testing is now going to be? Should all athletes competing at the hiighest levels now be forced to undertake genetic confirmation of masculinity or femininity?

CherryFlan · 06/11/2024 00:01

The Times is reporting that
Imane Khelif takes legal action over ‘evidence’ she has male chromosomes

So whatever evidence there is is likely to emerge in a more verifiable way.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/11/2024 00:02

You can’t blame them. They were raised female and believed to be so until she was told the results of her dna tests.

Who is they? And who is she?

Should all athletes competing at the hiighest levels now be forced to undertake genetic confirmation of masculinity or femininity?

Why not, given that it's important to guarantee fairness in sport? What exactly would be the problem?

WearyAuldWumman · 06/11/2024 00:03

rosyAndMoo · 05/11/2024 23:57

You can’t blame them. They were raised female and believed to be so until she was told the results of her dna tests. You can only make decisions on the information available at the time. Now new information has emerged it’s time to determine how this moves forwards. Does she give her medals back? (Personally I think yes) does this change the way that sports testing is now going to be? Should all athletes competing at the hiighest levels now be forced to undertake genetic confirmation of masculinity or femininity?

I don't blame Khelif for being raised female. I do blame Khelif for continuing to box in female events after being told the truth well before the Olympics.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/11/2024 00:06

So whatever evidence there is is likely to emerge in a more verifiable way.

Bring it on. I doubt there will be any surprises.

PurpleSparkledPixie · 06/11/2024 00:17

Aspokesperson for the IOC said: “We understand that Imane Khelif has taken legal action against individuals who commented on her situation during the Olympic Games Paris 2024, and is also preparing a lawsuit in response to the latest reporting.
Oh good. Curious as to how many actions are being brought (two, twenty, a hundred?) though. I assume we won't be allowed to guess the actual individuals except for JKR and Musk. 🍿.time

As with previous Olympic boxing competitions, the gender and age of the athletes were based on their passport details.
Still absolutely sickened about the stupidity of this though.

Helleofabore · 06/11/2024 04:21

And still the IOC statement does not contradict the Reduxx reports.

  • Female on passport.
  • previously played as female (because female on passport).
  • reminder that the IOC doesn’t sex test to verify sex.

Nothing here contradicts the claims which are more accurate that Khelif is a male person incorrectly registered as a female at birth due to ambiguous genitalia but later went through male puberty. They talk around the issue and think people can’t see that.

A spokesperson for the IOC said: “We understand that Imane Khelif has taken legal action against individuals who commented on her situation during the Olympic Games Paris 2024, and is also preparing a lawsuit in response to the latest reporting.”

“The IOC will not comment while legal action is ongoing, or on media reports about unverified documents whose origin cannot be confirmed.”

Imane Khelif has been competing in the women’s category in international boxing competitions for many years, including the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020, International Boxing Association World Championships and IBA-sanctioned tournaments.”

“All the athletes who participated in the boxing tournament at Paris 2024 complied with the competition’s eligibility and entry regulations, together with all the applicable medical regulations enacted by the Paris 2024 Boxing Unit (PBU),” continued the statement. “As with previous Olympic boxing competitions, the gender and age of the athletes were based on their passport details.”

“These rules also applied during the qualification period, including the boxing tournaments of the 2023 European Games, Asian Games, Pan-American Games and Pacific Games, the ad hoc 2023 African qualifying tournament in Dakar (Senegal), and two world qualifying tournaments, held in Busto Arsizio (Italy) and Bangkok (Thailand) in 2024, which involved a total of 1,471 different boxers from 172 National Olympic Committees (NOCs), the Boxing Refugee Team and Individual Neutral Athletes, and featured over 2,000 qualification bouts.”

“The PBU used the Tokyo 2020 boxing rules as a baseline to develop its regulations for Paris 2024. This was to minimise the impact on athletes’ preparations and guarantee consistency between Olympic Games. These Tokyo 2020 rules were based on the post-Rio 2016 rules, which were in place before the suspension of the IBA by the IOC in 2019 and the subsequent withdrawal of IOC recognition in 2023. Eligibility rules should not be changed during ongoing competitions, and any rule change must follow appropriate processes and should be based on scientific evidence.”

“The IOC is committed to protecting the human rights of all athletes who have taken part in the Olympic Games. The IOC is saddened by the abuse that Imane Khelif is currently receiving.”

Yep! Nothing that contradicts the Reduxx article.

All carefully worded to avoid saying that finally after years of putting female boxers into very harmful situations that the IBA finally changed its policy in 2022/23 to protect women. But by that time the IOC had removed the IBA from regulating the 2024 Olympics. Therefore, the IOC adopted the previous guidelines which allowed males with DSDs that virilise their bodies to compete.

We know this. We have discussed this for threads and threads so far since the end of July.

The IOC have lied though because they have been sent the chromosomal test results and someone there confirmed they received them to the IBA. They dismissed the tests because they didn’t require the tests for eligibility.

Once you understand the history, the sleight of hand deflection tactic the IOC has been using all this time is really clear.

Helleofabore · 06/11/2024 04:40

I cannot see how Khelif can take legal action without disclosing the medical records.

Khelif can sue that the hospital somehow allowed a person to breach medical privacy for sure. And that can most likely be done without disclosure.

The endocrinologist or whichever organisation was the destination for the reporter who published in Le correspondent (or the reporter’s source) to gather that information, allowed a GDPR breach. If the person who was responsible still works there, if they ever did, it is likely they will be educated on GDPR and medical data confidentiality. Or they could have their employment terminated.

But if the person is a whistleblower, can they be protected from this action? Under French law can they be considered a whistleblower with protection? This information is in the public interest for female safety in boxing.

If it was a defamation case, doubtful the reports would not have to be produced.

And hey, Le Correspondent may take the article down under legal orders, but this information is now out there.

TiredEyesSoreHeart · 06/11/2024 04:41

Surely his medical records will be subpoenaed by the defence if he sues?

Helleofabore · 06/11/2024 04:48

TiredEyesSoreHeart · 06/11/2024 04:41

Surely his medical records will be subpoenaed by the defence if he sues?

I reckon it depends on the grounds.

Suing for breach of GDPR would satisfy the description of ‘taking legal action’.

Something like defamation, I would think the information would become evidence.

The words ‘legal action’ is very broad and unspecific. Like most of IOC statements when you pick them apart to see what they actually say.

Happiestwhen · 06/11/2024 04:48

How come Kellie Harrington defeated Kelif then? The truth is the other fighters aren't all on par with Kellie. Sour grapes.

Helleofabore · 06/11/2024 05:19

Happiestwhen · 06/11/2024 04:48

How come Kellie Harrington defeated Kelif then? The truth is the other fighters aren't all on par with Kellie. Sour grapes.

This is a position that shows your ignorance of how competitive advantage works.

But they didn't win', 'they have been beaten', what does it matter, type arguments really show a complete lack of understanding about competitive advantage.

Just because a male athlete does not win every single time doesn’t mean they don’t have an unfair competitive advantage. It just means that they have an exceptional female opponent. Even if they beat every female competitor, by comparison to those male athletes with the same DSD that Khelif has been said to have, by measuring their potential they are effectively mediocre. When compared in the correct sex category, these are not exceptional male athletes they are well down the rankings.

When a male athlete loses to a female athlete, they are losing because they face an exceptional female athlete. When you consider their physical advantages, if they were elite level male athletes at the same level of peak performance as the female people that they were losing against, they would not have lost. They are not at any where near the level of exceptionality of the female athletes they are competing against.

In many instances, their performance rates as mediocre when compared to male athlete peak performance.

Consider the physical advantage to constitute x% performance advantage over all.

To achieve the same level of exceptionality of the female athletes, their performance will = peak female athlete performance + x%.

If the female athletes are beating the male athletes and those athletes have male pubertal advantage, then they simply are not as good as the female athlete. In fact, if those male athletes with x% pubertal advantage tied with the exceptional female athlete, then by comparison, the female athlete is better.

So this point too is irrelevant for competition. But. Not for safety.

What you are supporting with ignorant statements such as this is, in effect, very dangerous for female athletes due to male people have on average 160+% more punch power than female people (that is not athletes, that is just the general population) and many other advantages. In fact, part of the punch power is derived from skeletal leverage that males have to give this power that female people do not have. And bone mass and density that is greater in male people than female people.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/

This above is the review of 13 studies from Dr Emma Hilton and Tommy Lundberg and it shows these advantages, if anyone wishes to check for themselves.
To be clear. This bone difference means stronger bones!

Female people have been proven to have bones that are more prone to breakage, particularly in the face. And they are more prone to concussion and brain damage due to their more delicate brain fibres. This has been studied and is now shaping Rugby guidelines for female participation, as an example.
Rugby concussion: Swansea University study into protecting women https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51434749

To those who use the 'but they didn't win' what do you believe will happen to a female with those more delicate bones and brain fibres when hit with punches that are 160+% harder than other female boxers?

Can you understand that if a person enters the Tour de France with an electrified bike and still doesn’t win the Tour de France, they are still racing with an unfair advantage, they are just not exceptional. Because if they were at the same level of exceptional fitness and skill they would be winning with a huge margin. Ie. the best performance from a female athlete + x% advantage.

In any case, anyone making such an ignorant statement should check the dates of when that bout happened and the losses by Khelif since then.

A game of women's rugby at Swansea University

Rugby concussion: Swansea University study into protecting women

Research has found women are at a greater risk than men and the effects are more severe.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51434749

Helleofabore · 06/11/2024 05:46

Happiestwhen · 06/11/2024 04:48

How come Kellie Harrington defeated Kelif then? The truth is the other fighters aren't all on par with Kellie. Sour grapes.

It is irrelevant as to whether Khelif lost to any female boxer.

Khelif has competitive advantage due to going though male
puberty. It is highly dangerous for Khelif to compete against female boxers regardless of winning or losing.

However, when Khelif attended the 2021 Olympics and fought against Kellie Harrington, Khelif had been boxing for 5 years! And during those 5 years lost one or more years due to lockdown!

How many years do you think Kellie Harrington had been boxing? Considering she was 15 when she started? She was born in 1989 and had been boxing since 2004. By the time she got the Tokyo Olympics in 2021 to box Khelif, Harrington had 17 years experience in boxing!

Do you see it yet?

Why do you think a very experienced and exceptional female boxer with 17 years experience of boxing might beat a male boxer with effectively less than 5 years experience with a Covid lockdown impact in that time? So much leas than 5 years of any boxing experience?

Can you name any other female boxer gold medalist at the 2024 Olympics who only started boxing in 2016 when Khelif started? I’d be keen to know.

NewGreenDuck · 06/11/2024 07:05

If Mike Tyson decided today that he was female, would he be able to box as a female? Would a magical ' f' in his passport allow that?
Our eyes would know he was and is a man
And so it is with this person.
Women are being treated like rubbish, as ever. Just collateral damage, literally.

maddening · 06/11/2024 07:07

ChateauMargaux · 05/11/2024 22:50

IK competed in line the rules that were in place at the time.

Timeline:
1999: sex testing removed despite the overwhelming majority of women being in favour of it remaining.

2009: DSD athletes begin to appear in the female competition in athletics

2019: DSD ruling restrictions put in place for certain events in athletics.

2021: IOC state they will support trans athletes and athletes with sex variations to compete in sport in ways that affirm their identity and well-being.. but leaving the exact rules up to the individual International Federations.

2022: Led by swimming, the international federations for swimming, cycling, athletics and rowing (and others?) introduce terms about 'male puberty' into the restrictions around the female category.. protecting the XX category.

2023: International Boxing Association are relieved of the responsibility for Olympics by the IOC and the IOC will directly oversee boxing rules in the 2024 Olympics. https://olympics.com/ioc/news/joint-paris-2024-boxing-unit-ioc-statement

2024: The Paris Boxing Unit Rules define eligibility as based on passport, as it has been for the previous games.

2024: IOC press guidelines require journalists to refrain from speculating about competitors sex / gender.

The IOC wanted trans and DSD athlete's to compete in their category of identity. They knew the other major sporting federations had clarified and tightened up eligibility criteria. They choose to leave the criteria for boxing based on passport. They did not insist that the other sports follow the lead of swimming, athletes, cycling et al.. .. notably football / soccer.

It is an indefensible position but they defended it to the bitter end.

Edited

The IOC needs to go

Zestylemo · 06/11/2024 07:51

ChateauMargaux · 04/11/2024 17:09

@headstone ... the question over this athlete was not raised based on looks or behaviour.. it was raised because of information that this athlete failed a sex test in a previous competition. The IOC continued to state that this person was legally female and that this was enough to be permitted to compete based on the rules in force at the time.

Many other sports required entrants to the female competition to be biologically female, athletics, cycling and swimming.. to name a few. Other sports did not.. football and boxing.. and possibly other combat events.

The fact that the IOC directed journalists not to speculate on the sex or gender of competitors, hinted that there was something that was being hidden.

We don't know the full extend of the number of male competitors in the female competition, but we do know there were at least 4.

We know this because each of these 4 athletes has failed sex tests in other competitions... not because we think they don't fit gender stereotypes.. facts.. biology... and in some cases, interviews with the athletes themselves (football again).

This!

Datun · 06/11/2024 08:09

CherryFlan · 06/11/2024 00:01

The Times is reporting that
Imane Khelif takes legal action over ‘evidence’ she has male chromosomes

So whatever evidence there is is likely to emerge in a more verifiable way.

“The IOC is committed to protecting the human rights of all athletes who have taken part in the Olympic Games. The IOC is saddened by the abuse that Imane Khelif is currently receiving.”

That is the kind of pathetic, scraping the bottom of the barrel, last ditch attempt at a desperate scrambling for the moral high ground, that will be the nail in their coffin.

They couldn't drip with more hypocrisy if they tried.

Hoppinggreen · 06/11/2024 09:24

Happiestwhen · 06/11/2024 04:48

How come Kellie Harrington defeated Kelif then? The truth is the other fighters aren't all on par with Kellie. Sour grapes.

Even if Khelif lost every single match he shoudln't have been competing.
Winning or losing isn't the point
We can't say that men can box with women but only the shit ones (which they usually are compared to other male competitors)

caringcarer · 06/11/2024 09:48

He may have been brought up as a female but he knew categorically he was a biological male and should have completed in the male category.

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