Husband upset about teachers saying ' boys can wear make up ' and taking about transgender people to our DD

[chocolatehu]

Before I start, this isn't meant to be inflammatory in any way.

I very much belief in ' live and let live '.

My husband also generally believes that but he also believes that our DD is very young and that talk around the kinds of things mentioned in my title - is too soon.

We have a son too and sometimes when he wants to put on makeup etc, my DH will say ' boys don't wear makeup '. My DD has come home several times, correcting us saying that her teacher told her that boys do wear makeup.

Yesterday my son was trying to wear hair clips and again, someone said ' those are for girls '. My DD answered that her teacher had told her that it was ok for boys to do those things and that her friend ( who's a boy ) is now getting married as a girl.

My husband feels it's too soon and confusing for a 4 year old to be told about this.

I think it's a sign we need to have some conversations with my DD, so she hears from us about this stuff.

My in laws and parents think it's completely inappropriate for teachers to be saying this sort of stuff and are wondering if the same sort of things would be said in a catholic school setting.

I think we should buy a book which explains homosexuality/ transgender issues in a child friendly way.

Please can someone who's been here, help me navigate ? Thank you. Again, I don't want to offend anyone.

I’d be shocked if my parents or in-laws came out with anything like that and they’re in their 60s. My own grandparents in their 90s would never hold such views because they are intelligent, tolerant people. Men wearing makeup is not a new thing; I don’t think you can excuse these attitudes by age.

It is unusual. My son’s grandparents are in their 80s and don’t have such archaic views.

So you see men in "dresses" all the time, right?

Oh do give over with your grooming shite. Boys wear make up fact and demonising it adds to the mental health struggles of young people who don’t fit into your cookie cutter idea of life.

If you were ten years older, you'd have hit the tween/teen years with Adam and the Ants, Bowie, punk/funk/electro/rock/heavy metal (the men wore eyeliner at the minimum), culture club, iggy pop, Mick jagger, Prince, Duran Duran, the list is endless.

@chocolatehu I totally agree that your DH's stance is counter protective. Do not buy books about trans and gay choices, because as said, you are confirming that straight men can't wear makeup and if they want to they are trans. It sounds as though this (trans) is coming from a particular teacher and isn't part of the teaching. You could get that in a Catholic school.

This.

Hair clips and make up do not a woman make.

Exactly this. By saying x thing is only for boys and y thing is only for girls it ends up with the girl who likes x thing thinking that perhaps she’s a boy.

I had a little girl in my class a couple of days ago telling on one of the little boys because he was using all the pink cubes and they were only for girls. I told her that anyone can use any cubes. I was surprised as she has two mums and I didn’t expect that from her household.

"before I start, this isn't meant to be inflammatory in any way"
😂

Yeah exactly!🤣We see you.

I would be more concerned about your DH telling your little boy he can't wear hair clips.
What an absolute luddite!

Teacher here, I think it's highly inappropriate for the teacher of a 4 year old to keep being "educated" about this - gender identity and fashion sense are a bit high level for a 4 year old, and there is far more important yet less complex and ambiguous stuff to learn at that age.

I don't see why children being "confused"is an issue, a baby is confused when they move their arm and see it move, that's how they learn and causes them to question things and see how their knowledge applies in different situations.
I think you are using the word confused to mean different to what you believe.
I think as your children grow up you have a lot of these "wow" moments where you suddenly realise they are not you and they are their own independent person.
The whole job of childhood (from when they start to crawl) is about them becoming independent.
Doesn't stop it giving you a shock each time but ultimately they can make up their own minds.

I think you're right about one thing and wrong about another:

• Boys can absolutely wear any kind of makeup they want, and there is a long social history of this
• That doesn't make them transgender! The idea that putting on makeup turns a boy into a girl is even more laughable than your husband's position, to be honest

@chocolatehu hats off to you for engaging with people’s responses in such a considered way. I have two young girls who love face paint, make up and girly things…the funny thing is I deliberately ignore gender stereotypes, they’re just drawn to these things. I do explain that clothes are just clothes, anyone can wear what they love. Make up is just decoration and anyone can put it on. I also explain that typically girls do x and boys do y but that it’s ok to choose something not typical.
In a book we read there’s a story about a transgender girl and I did feel a bit uncomfortable that they’re too young to process it. Then I remembered we have friends with two mummy’s, and two daddy’s and that actually it’s an important topic to understand.

This too! Ponytail hairstyle are increasingly in with young boys, you see loads with bands and clips now.

I think your husband is wrong. Boys can wear makeup, hair slides and even dresses. It's fine. They are just accessories. He can wear it dress how he wants. How he dresses won't make him gay but it also won't make him a girl. He's a boy with a penis.

I think pushing the makeup/liking butterflies/not into sports = trans, is what's causing MH issues. We'd got to a point were generous was a social construct and we were just people with interests.
My DD (27) was a goth during her teens. There wasn't the MH issues within her community/peer group that there are now. They all say that they would hate to be hitting their teens now. She has a best friend who has transitioned, you'd be surprised at how they are silenced when they speak out (against) about self I.D and pushing, like x = trans.

This is exactly right. It’s fine if boys want to wear hair clips and makeup - boys should be “allowed” as girls are. Doesn’t make them girls - it makes them boys who wear makeup, which is totally fine. (FWIW this is a “gender critical” view - that’s what it means).

You could also say as per the teachers comment that there are some boys who want other people to think that they are girls even though they aren’t, but that’s not the same as wearing makeup.

I’m Catholic, and a Governor at a Catholic School.

We teach a full curriculum, and talk about Sexuality and Gender. Nobody is taught anything is “wrong” - it would be wholly inconsistent with national guideline, which we follow.

We have young people who identify as gay, or trans .. and whatever your personal opinion, those young people have a right to education in a safe and accepting environment. We would never teach that any of that is wrong.

Great comment, though friends with two mummies and friends with two daddies is nothing to do with transgender girls though

I think the make up dressing up is perfectly fine, but I can’t for one moment see why the teacher had to say that her brother is getting married as a girl. That is something completely different and totally inappropriate to mention to a four year old, it will just leave them confused.

Yes I totally agree, I think the points OP has brought up are two very different things.

But boys CAN like pink, paint their nails, have long hair, wear hair clips, makeup and dresses. BOYS can do those things and still be boys.

If anything, you and your husband are pushing the idea that if boys do any of those things then they have to be trans girls. It’s an incredibly damaging stance to take with such young minds.

Your point about homosexuality is moot. You can’t turn someone gay fgs.

Lastly, your son has an older sister. He likes doing what she likes doing because he loves her. You are trying to stop him doing that because he needs to act “like a boy”. It’s sad.

They are too young for you to be making anything of this at all. Just let them play.

Not everything is about sex/gender/identity. Children generally should not wear makeup or high heels, boys or girls - I think it is reflected in uniform rules as well. If adult people choose to wear makeup, they can. Why complicate?