Husband upset about teachers saying ' boys can wear make up ' and taking about transgender people to our DD

[chocolatehu]

Before I start, this isn't meant to be inflammatory in any way.

I very much belief in ' live and let live '.

My husband also generally believes that but he also believes that our DD is very young and that talk around the kinds of things mentioned in my title - is too soon.

We have a son too and sometimes when he wants to put on makeup etc, my DH will say ' boys don't wear makeup '. My DD has come home several times, correcting us saying that her teacher told her that boys do wear makeup.

Yesterday my son was trying to wear hair clips and again, someone said ' those are for girls '. My DD answered that her teacher had told her that it was ok for boys to do those things and that her friend ( who's a boy ) is now getting married as a girl.

My husband feels it's too soon and confusing for a 4 year old to be told about this.

I think it's a sign we need to have some conversations with my DD, so she hears from us about this stuff.

My in laws and parents think it's completely inappropriate for teachers to be saying this sort of stuff and are wondering if the same sort of things would be said in a catholic school setting.

I think we should buy a book which explains homosexuality/ transgender issues in a child friendly way.

Please can someone who's been here, help me navigate ? Thank you. Again, I don't want to offend anyone.

I love it when boys wear makeup / hair styles traditionally associated with women yet still call themselvesboys.

my teenage son is currently growing his hair long. No clips, but I'm hoping he may one day try the 'man bun'

The conversation you need to have is with your relative to stop saying silly things like “only girls wear hair clips”.

Your DD is fine and doesn’t need a conversation unless she starts asking you questions.

Your update changes things I wouldn't want a teacher sharing personal information like that with a child. It confuses them (because changing sex is not possible).

I would just be light touch with DD and say both boys and girls are free to explore things and boys can wear make up or hair clips, and girls can play football and that's great. But I wouldn't have conversations about changing sex because she's too young

I agree with pp that Your DH’s attitude of boys don’t wear make up and hair clips is very old fashioned. It’s applying sex based stereotypes to limit a child’s development. Boys also play with dolls, and kitchens etc. and girls play with cars etc.

WRT the teacher talking about transgender, I agree 4 is too young.

I would be asking the teacher what exactly they have said to your DD as she seems confused. Your DD may have misunderstood or sadly may have been told boys can change their sex and become girls. If the latter is the case, AIBU is not the place to post.

I suggest you post on the Feminism: sex and gender board where you will be given links to resources and the latest guidance from the Department for Education.

Or watched TV, a movie or gone to the theatre? They all have makeup on.

I agree boys can wear makeup - I think the rigid stereotyping falls into the hands of the trans activists - eg you like "girl" stuff then you are a girl.

I also agree with your parents that teachers have no business teaching transgenderism and are confusing dc - additionally anyone proactively trying to indoctrinate dc at the age of 4 is an activist and has no place in school. And when dc are gender confused they have no business "socially transitioning" dc at school - they are not sufficiently qualified as psychotherapists to be taking any active part in this aspect of mental health of dc that they teach

Tell your dh that he is potentially damaging ds by preventing his self expression and for your dd all she needs is age appropriate explanations - I would be careful of which books you use to support, i am sure that there are some great ones but some are ideologically driven.

Wearing/experimenting with make-up is fine. When my son was little, he enjoyed putting on make-up, nail varnish and Disney dresses. He also played with baby dolls. He is 16 now, not trans and not gay either. (I would have no issue at all with him being gay but I would be concerned if he had a trans identity).

Making it clear that gender stereotypes are ridiculous is not the same as discussing transgender people with children.

You're conflating the two issues.

Your husband needs to stop saying ridiculous things like "boys don't wear makeup." Makeup can be worn by anyone. Skirts can be worn by anyone. Hairclips can be worn by anyone. The teacher is correct. Breaking down gender stereotypes is what stops children feeling like they can't be themselves without transitioning. When a boy wants to wear a skirt, they can put on the skirt and be a boy wearing a skirt.

The teacher perhaps mentioning that their sibling is trans is also a non-issue. They're not encouraging the children to transition.

Basically what has happened is that my DD has corrected us on a couple of occasions now, because what she's been told at school- hasn't aligned with what we've told her at home.

I am sure this won't be the first time in our parenting journey that this will happen.

My husband is old fashioned about it, as he doesn't want to confuse them when they're very young.

I do wonder if at a catholic school this could be different ?

But yes, I would be concerned if teachers were giving children the idea that people can change sex or ‘live as’ the opposite sex.

Just explain to your dd that sometimes boys wear makeup - maybe they are covering a spot or scar, or they are actors etc.

The same for clothes, sometimes boys like to dress up just the same as girls like to dress up.

I agree with your dh though, 4 is too young to discuss such issues. I wouldn't be happy either.

4 is far to young to be learning about transgender. I’m with your husband

I don't believe your 4 year old associated a gender stereotype with a story her teacher told about a trans relative.

Your husband is confusing them by suggesting that makeup and hair clips care what type of genitals they have.

There's nothing wrong with trying to dismantle gender stereotypes (we've been doing that since glam rock in the seventies). The problem lies with trans ideologists, who have been successful in convincing people in powerful positions to agree that boys who want to wear make-up have been born in the wrong body and are therefore girls, which, at best, is reinforcing gender stereotypes and, at worst, is setting children up for social and medical transition at puberty or sooner. I can understand the husband's concerns.

That teacher sounds a menace.

Time to start teaching DD about gender critical feminism!

Drip drip drip .....

Is your husband also telling your son he can’t play with toy ironing boards or your daughter with trucks? The teacher gave the child a factual reply which is exactly what they should have done

Sounds to me like the teacher is doing a good job dismantling the gender stereotypes that are entrenched in some families

The only person who is going to confuse your children is your dinosaur of a husband.

Of course boys can wear make up, hair clips etc. It's 2024 ffs! Just let your son express himself. Why is your husband such a fun sponge. Your poor little boy.

The transgender thing is also a none issue. The teacher hasn't sat the class down and shown them sex reassignment videos. She merely mentioned a family member getting married!

Sounds like you’re both overanalysing this. Some boys/men wear makeup, some don’t. Some girls/women wear makeup, some don’t. Possible parenting rule for your home is that no one wears makeup until age 13 or whatever age you both feel is appropriate. End of conversation.

@CLEO42 This 100%

Yes, but I’m assuming he meant outwith stage/tv etc, more boys wearing make-up in the street eg.

Good point actually. Children don't wear makeup is more appropriate perhaps.

Kids can understand a lot if they're introduced to ideas in a way they can understand.

e.g. on make up, rather than talking about who does and doesn't wear make up, which is very binary, why not introduce the complexity and richness in a simple way? Young kids can understand things like:

• Anyone's face can have make up applied to it
• Some people like to wear make up, some people don't
• It is more common where we live for women to habitually wear make up than for men to habitually wear make up
• Some people wear make up to cover over features they dislike, for example facial scars
• Some people like to use make up which doesn't change the appearance of their face very much, other people like to use very obvious make up to alter their appearance.

Your child will learn a lot more if you take this sort of approach from from being told a binary 'boys don't wear make up' (which just isn't true - lots of boys will play with make up when they find it and delight in how it changes their faces, some older boys will take to habitually using make up, as do some men).