Husband upset about teachers saying ' boys can wear make up ' and taking about transgender people to our DD

[chocolatehu]

Before I start, this isn't meant to be inflammatory in any way.

I very much belief in ' live and let live '.

My husband also generally believes that but he also believes that our DD is very young and that talk around the kinds of things mentioned in my title - is too soon.

We have a son too and sometimes when he wants to put on makeup etc, my DH will say ' boys don't wear makeup '. My DD has come home several times, correcting us saying that her teacher told her that boys do wear makeup.

Yesterday my son was trying to wear hair clips and again, someone said ' those are for girls '. My DD answered that her teacher had told her that it was ok for boys to do those things and that her friend ( who's a boy ) is now getting married as a girl.

My husband feels it's too soon and confusing for a 4 year old to be told about this.

I think it's a sign we need to have some conversations with my DD, so she hears from us about this stuff.

My in laws and parents think it's completely inappropriate for teachers to be saying this sort of stuff and are wondering if the same sort of things would be said in a catholic school setting.

I think we should buy a book which explains homosexuality/ transgender issues in a child friendly way.

Please can someone who's been here, help me navigate ? Thank you. Again, I don't want to offend anyone.

The teacher is teaching respect and tolerance for differences. My young kids know it is absolutely fine if boys/men want to wear makeup and hair clips. We have bought 'girls' presents for boys that have an interest in sparkly things etc. A lot of boys do if they aren't conditioned by society not to. This doesn't make them transgender, it makes them able to fully explore and experiment with different things, which is good for their development. There is of course the potential for bullying especially from kids taught to be intolerant but that can be discussed with the child.

from OP: "her friend ( who's a boy ) is now getting married as a girl"

a boy is now a girl.... yep, that's trans ideology

and totally inappropriate for children to be taught this in schools, I would have thought that after the Cass Review this would have died already

not neutral, not safe

Your DH is being ridiculous and very narrow minded.

All you can do is keep correcting him and ask him to pack it in.

To clarify OP, what ages are your DS and DD?

4 and 2

Well, I have Asperger's and find it very difficult to adjust to such things and others.
I don't seethe, I just crawl back to my safe space.
Very grateful I can do that.

It’s never been an issue in our house as I don’t really wear makeup. One time small DS asked for it and I found some old eyeshadow and lipstick at the back of a drawer.
But I’m not a fan of small children’s lovely faces disfigured by makeup, it’s one of those things where children’s self-expression is not actually that great to look at/listen to but you have to be nice about it! I might say trying out makeup is fine at home but everything apart from nail varnish comes off before we go out.
(probably part of my problem with it is the ‘adult’ association with child beauty pageants etc)

It is true that anyone can wear make up, if we look back in history men often did, and wore powdered wigs. In Regency times men were very ornate! However most don't do that. My husband never wore make up and the only time my son did was when he was on stage at school (one accepts that actors are made up). It wasn't because they had hang ups about it, they just didn't, neither did their friends. For all that there is nothing in itself wrong with a man wearing make up.

What your husband is saying is that four is too young for all this malarkey. Surely children at school of either sex are not allowed to wear make up, maybe they do when they fifteen or older but it isn't generally allowed. Therefore why bring the subject up?

Like you, op, I live and let live but some things seem to be promoted to children which can then become a fashion. I am not sure that is healthy. By all means promote tolerance but don't put things in young heads that they are not ready for.

https://sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/schools-and-safeguarding/

Here's guidance for parents on here for how to deal with gender ideology at schools. They're not supposed to be grooming children on ideology now, the Cass report has changed everything. Complain about the teacher's gender ideology grooming to the school.

https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

https://sex-matters.org/take-action/school-check/

My DD just likes to paint her face at home, she never goes out with it though.

I was not allowed to play with children's make up like my DD is when I was a girl at all. Maybe it's best that way, not because of the girl boy thing but in general.

Because I won't want her wearing makeup from a young age ( out of the house ) and maybe it will be more difficult to delay makeup wearing outside the house one day if she's allowed to play with it now.

Well.you ans presumably thr teachers are dealing with two.seperate subjects and mixing the two is what us harmful.
Of course boys can wear make up and hair clips. The key is teaching that this in no way makes them less of a boy.
If you say clothes, accessories are only.for boys or girls, that's where you start to confuse people into thinking their style.makes them the opposite sex.

Your husband is factually incorrect stating that boys don’t wear makeup. There are countless examples on this thread of times when they typically do, but they also can, just because they want to (without being trans).

I would not want to be raising children with someone so small-minded. As for the grandparents and the catholic school comments… 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

Absolutely! And many band members who are not trans.

@chocolatehu Lots of men wear makeup.

@Newposter180 well it's not that unusual is it, for older people to have differing views about this stuff.

We are all catholic. It's just a fact.

But why not? Why can’t boys wear makeup? I would lose respect for a man who insisted point blank ‘boy children in MY family don’t wear makeup’. Well ok arsehole now I know you’ll be a shit dad if our child is gay should we split up now or later? How about celebrating our child for who he is and letting him do things because there is no good reason to say no?’
should schools teach about trans issues- no I don’t think so at that age. But it won’t matter really as the child whose parents have shut him down and pushed him away will find that information somewhere - the home environment is the first problem here.

These discussions usually come up because of conversations amongst the class. Our year 1 teacher had to talk about this with his class as one of the pupils siblings is transgender. Which led to a lot of confused children questioning one child and some making unkind comments they had clearly heard from parents. So it very much is the schools prerogative to make clear they expect respect and tolerance in school regardless of parent views.

Also absolutely no teacher is keen to parent more. We would actually very much prefer to parent less.

We are also Catholic. There is nothing about Catholicism that says boys must conform to boy rules.

So I think there are two separate things being conflated here and it’s worth picking them apart.

Tbh I don’t think it’s too early for a four year old to hear that boys can wear make-up and hair clips. I think rigid gender stereotypes so young is one way for people to feel shit about themselves later in life. DS is far too young to be exposed to such ridiculous notions that things ‘aren’t for boys’.

To extend the analogy, what would your DH say if DD wanted to play football?

Good on the teacher for giving a different world view.

What is slightly different is the trans comment. Are you 100% sure that’s what she said? I know you said your DD repeated it but she’s only 4 and may have got confused. If she did say that, then I think it’s ok to be a bit nervous or concerned.

Your poor DS though, being told at 2 that he can’t wear a hair clip

My mum grew up on the 1960's. She's ''Older'' and doesn't turn a hair about men wearing makeup.

OP I think it might be the opposite - if you let her play with makeup now she might see it as a childish thing to do when she gets a bit older, whereas if you ban it it will be a grown up thing to aspire to. Obviously peer influences will be a bigger thing in the end, but I think healthier not to ban or encourage but just not treat it as a big deal.
Also, do you wear makeup regularly? That’s pretty relevant too in shaping her ideas about growing up female and expectations.

Two separate issues. Boys, and girls, can wear what they like. Your DH needs to make the connection that if he keeps insisting anything traditionally 'girlie' is off limits, he may enforce the idea that anyone liking those things IS a girl. Dangerous in this day and age.

The teacher should absolutely not be telling any child her brother has changed sex and I would be following that up. 4yo will literally believe it, believe it's possible, and start falling for the idea that outdated stereotypes are what makes male and female. They aren't. Regressive nonsense.

I think both your husband and the teacher are in the wrong.

Is your son allowed to get his face painted by a face painter? It brought lots of joy to my son when his face was turned into Spiderman, a lion or something.

Your husband’s rigid statements like boys don’t wear make up are as problematic as your DD’s teacher talking about transgender people like she has. My kids were in Reception about 15 years ago and there was a lot of parroting of statements like what your husband says “pink is for girls “ “only boys can have a Star Wars lunchbag”

I have boys and a girl who are now adults and it’s worked out well treating both the same. My dd is allowed piercings and makeup so my sons are allowed it too. They’ve tried hair clips and makeup out of curiousity because why not? 🤷‍♀️ There are male MUA making a bomb as influencers and there’s nothing wrong with that imo. I like to think that treating my sons and daughter the same reduced the appeal of Andrew Tate type influencers when they were at the age where they could pick up such attitudes.

Transgenderism is a direct result of attitudes kind makeup is for girls. It turns wearing makeup as something underground and shameful for men when it shouldn’t. Your h may not know men at his work to wear makeup because he works in an office rather than a film set but does he really think that men at a football match with face paints are not men because that’s the message that he’s sending ?