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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Younger brother never pays his way

204 replies

Aandespine · 11/10/2024 14:10

I have a younger brother (30 years old) who I've always been pretty close to. There's an age gap between us, and I've always felt a maternal responsibility towards him. I supported him through his studies, career, and even helped him purchase his first house mortgage free (I selected the house, chose the bank loan for renovation costs, helped with decisions during renovation, sorted out the accounting side of things, helped decide on a tenant, put together a tenancy agreement etc). He lives in my parent's house rent free. Has never paid bills. Has a fairly high earning job considering he has no huge outgoings.

Now, I'd never be in a position to buy a house. I moved out young, had a lot of financial commitments towards my mum/siblings. I was earning a lot when younger, he was still a student, and I was happy to pay for things back then- I paid for holidays for the both of us - flights, accommodation, food (we both love travelling), whenever we eat out, sit in cafés, I'd pay each time.

Over the past couple of years I've hinted that he should be paying his way, and been quite open about my financial situation not being the same as when I was younger, but nothing changed. I was still paying for everything. I got married and started a family recently, stopped working to look after the babies. Granted I see him less frequently now, but whenever we go out the expectation remains that I pay for everything.

We went out the other day with extended family and he didn't even offer to pay his share. I ended up footing the entire bill (didn't want my mum to since I know she's also struggling financially) but have ended up in my overdraft as a result. There were young children with us and I didn't want to cause a scene.

I'm just so ashamed to admit this about him and so so disappointed in him, and myself I guess since I had quite an influence on his upbringing. I don't want to cut contact, but I'm really sick of his selfishness sense of entitlement. What do I do?

OP posts:
SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 11/10/2024 21:24

I don't think that you or your mum can afford to eat out at the moment, and there's no shame in saying so next time anyone suggests it. Your brother can afford it and maybe he will offer to pay, if presented with this fact. If not, you can meet at one of your homes for a drink and a few snacks, or a simple meal.

ComingBackHome · 11/10/2024 21:31

Aandespine · 11/10/2024 18:23

I was actually anxious at the thought of paying. I've had to excuse myself from other family get togethers for this very reason, and I made a very big deal about agreeing with everyone how to settle to prior to another get together at a restaurant (while my me and brother were not on talking terms).

I'm trying.

Show quote history

It’s hard to change a lifetime of conditioning @Aandespine

Small steps, one after the other.

I think only taking cash for your meal next time you go out is a really good idea.
And if someone asks for money, delay the answer. Say something like ‘I need to check with dh’. This will give you time to find your courage and an excuse. See if your dh can support you, maybe if he is happy fir you to say ‘sorry but dh says NO’.
In time, you’ll feel more and more comfortable in saying No to them.

Im pretty sure you’ll get a lot of pushback and guilt tripping though. Getting support in RL will be more than helpful.
And if you can, getting counselling too.

Onlyplans · 11/10/2024 21:47

If he’s got a tenant in his mortgage free home then the rent every month will be a nice earner on top of his salary.

I wouldn’t wait for it to happen again,I’d message in advance saying you were no longer in a position to pay for him anymore

Original poster
Aandespine · 11/10/2024 22:24

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Yes, there is a history of abuse. We are all estranged from my father as a result.

Thank you all for all your responses. I only now realise the ridiculousness of it all.

OP posts:
Ivehearditbothways · 12/10/2024 09:30

Aandespine · 11/10/2024 17:30

My mum would sell a kidney rather than ask my brother for help/rent. She's got herself into some pretty worrying financial situations (loan sharks, selling family heirlooms) as a result of hardship while my brother remains oblivious.

Try as I may, I just cannot turn off. Me and my mum are really close and I cannot stop worrying and caring about her.

Edited
Show quote history

How can you be so judgemental of your mum not holding him to account and getting decent rent etc from him, and getting into debt just was of asking him, when you did the exact same thing?
You went into your overdraft rather than telling him to pay for his own lunch. I mean… it’s staggering. You’re a grown women with kids, and you’re not working. But rather than opening your mouth and telling your brother to order his own food, you went into your overdraft…. Then you judge your mother. That’s not on.

You didn’t even have to ask him, you could have just gone up and ordered for you and your kids. Leave your mum to do what she wants and leave your brother to do what he wants. If your mum pays for him then that’s on her. Stop giving her money, stop helping her. Just repeat, “I have my own family now and I’m a SAHM. We don’t have spare money. My brother is a single man with a job and rental income, the two of you have to work out your own finances and leave me out of it.”

Have you taken the suggestion of therapy seriously?

ComingBackHome · 12/10/2024 09:42

@Ivehearditbothways and have you thought that putting people down or telling them it’s obvious etc… is NEVER helpful?

If you genuinely want to help, then think about what you say and the way you say it.
And if the idea is just to make you feel better by releasing all your frustrations, anger at the world/life/partner/whatever, stop using the OP and I dint know, use journaling instead so you dint hurt anyone else in the process?

BMW6 · 12/10/2024 09:44

TBH I think your Mum has been financially and emotionally abusing you in favour of her son.

She is the parent. She has enabled her Prince and has persuaded you to play along at the expense of your children's, as well as your, wellbeing.

Your relationship with your Mum is very unbalanced. She doesn't care about you, just your brother. You've been a walking ATM for her.

Sorry to be harsh but I want you to see the truth.

You've been used horribly by your Mum and brother, but she is more responsible for the abuse.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 12/10/2024 09:46

@singleandproud

Stop hinting and actually ask for what you want.

This, 100%.

It's a simple communication problem and you can easily solve it, if you choose to.

Frozensnow · 12/10/2024 09:49

I’d message him on the family chat if you have one.

Hi Jack, please can you send me the £22 from your meal at the cafe the other day.

when you’re at the cafe again and he’s there say very firmly:
‘jack do you want to pay cash for yours or bank transfer it me? ’ have that full expectation that he is paying at all times. He can choose how but don’t leave the cafe until he’s sent it.

Frozensnow · 12/10/2024 09:49

Also I’m sure your mum could pay for her own sandwich too

zileri · 12/10/2024 09:55

OP, I have a relative like this who would always expect my husband and I to pay for everything. I really don't know why she is like this. Basically, the only way to deal with these people is to just name it with them - "Your round" or "We'll be splitting the bill please" or "Yes you're welcome to join us, but we will not be able to pay for you as well." Just say it to their face. People can only exploit you for as long as you let them.

RampantIvy · 12/10/2024 09:57

Don't ask for a bank transfer. He won't do it.

Just saying you are skint will fall on deaf ears.

"I'm not paying for you because I am skint" is better.

Or just stop meeting them in cafes or anywhere where there is an expectation of you putting your hand in your pocket.

Visit your mum at her house instead. Or if they come to you make sure it isn't over a meal time.

They take advantage of you because you allow it, and only you can put a stop to it. What does your husband say?

zileri · 12/10/2024 09:58

And if you are overdrawn now, just text him and say, "Hi, I need to ask you to transfer £x for dinner the other day as unfortunately, I am now overdrawn."

Ivehearditbothways · 12/10/2024 11:05

ComingBackHome · 12/10/2024 09:42

@Ivehearditbothways and have you thought that putting people down or telling them it’s obvious etc… is NEVER helpful?

If you genuinely want to help, then think about what you say and the way you say it.
And if the idea is just to make you feel better by releasing all your frustrations, anger at the world/life/partner/whatever, stop using the OP and I dint know, use journaling instead so you dint hurt anyone else in the process?

The OP doesn’t seem to have any problems putting her own mother down for they way she deals with this man and finances. Whilst the OP does the exact same thing herself…

And it actually is helpful to see how incredulous the rest of the world is to your actions, as the OP said herself, she didn’t realise how ridiculous the whole thing was until she saw what people were saying about it.

Original poster
Aandespine · 12/10/2024 11:15

Thanks for your responses.

Yes I am currently in therapy trying to process my father's abuse.

I suppose me and my mum are similar in that we cannot manage this issue and are enabling my brother's behaviour and sense of entitlement, so there is truth to what a PP suggested. But whereas I realise the dynamic isn't healthy (even if I cannot change it), my mum remains in denial and fervently in defence of her son.

OP posts:
Ivehearditbothways · 12/10/2024 11:21

Aandespine · 12/10/2024 11:15

Thanks for your responses.

Yes I am currently in therapy trying to process my father's abuse.

I suppose me and my mum are similar in that we cannot manage this issue and are enabling my brother's behaviour and sense of entitlement, so there is truth to what a PP suggested. But whereas I realise the dynamic isn't healthy (even if I cannot change it), my mum remains in denial and fervently in defence of her son.

Edited

So let her. Let her carry on the way she is. It’s nothing to do with you. Don’t try to save her, don’t rescue her when she goes to pay his bills. You have 3 kids on one salary. Surely your husband and your kids deserve the money (your husband earns) more than your mother and brother do.

Your brother has a huge disposable income. He is not your problem. Your mother is an adult who makes her own choices and has other options if she needs money (like getting your brother to pay his way).

Leave them to it. Only pay for yourself and your kids. When you orders say right at the start “put this on a separate bill” then rattle off your order. Don’t ask permission. Just say it. If they question, you simply say, “I’m a SAHM and we don’t have the extra money to pay for you.” Then grey rock.

suburburban · 12/10/2024 11:29

Aandespine · 12/10/2024 11:15

Thanks for your responses.

Yes I am currently in therapy trying to process my father's abuse.

I suppose me and my mum are similar in that we cannot manage this issue and are enabling my brother's behaviour and sense of entitlement, so there is truth to what a PP suggested. But whereas I realise the dynamic isn't healthy (even if I cannot change it), my mum remains in denial and fervently in defence of her son.

Edited

Yes let them get on with it

It sounds like you have supported your db in the past and have missed out on buying your own house.

If anything he should be supporting you financially or paying you back

TorroFerney · 12/10/2024 15:31

Ivehearditbothways · 12/10/2024 09:30

How can you be so judgemental of your mum not holding him to account and getting decent rent etc from him, and getting into debt just was of asking him, when you did the exact same thing?
You went into your overdraft rather than telling him to pay for his own lunch. I mean… it’s staggering. You’re a grown women with kids, and you’re not working. But rather than opening your mouth and telling your brother to order his own food, you went into your overdraft…. Then you judge your mother. That’s not on.

You didn’t even have to ask him, you could have just gone up and ordered for you and your kids. Leave your mum to do what she wants and leave your brother to do what he wants. If your mum pays for him then that’s on her. Stop giving her money, stop helping her. Just repeat, “I have my own family now and I’m a SAHM. We don’t have spare money. My brother is a single man with a job and rental income, the two of you have to work out your own finances and leave me out of it.”

Have you taken the suggestion of therapy seriously?

Show quote history

Because it’s her bloody mother and a mother shouldn’t be enabling one child to the detriment of another child. Her mum has set the precedent from early on that brother is golden and special and that has just continued, her mum has let her down. And there may be reasons why , abuse, her own childhood but that’s not the op’s fault. She’s right to be bloody angry with her mum.

Ivehearditbothways · 12/10/2024 15:37

TorroFerney · 12/10/2024 15:31

Because it’s her bloody mother and a mother shouldn’t be enabling one child to the detriment of another child. Her mum has set the precedent from early on that brother is golden and special and that has just continued, her mum has let her down. And there may be reasons why , abuse, her own childhood but that’s not the op’s fault. She’s right to be bloody angry with her mum.

Show quote history

But she’s not right to continue on doing it when she has 3 kids and she isn’t working so the money she is spending is families money from her husband, to support HIS family. Her, her kids and himself. It is not to spend on her feckless brother and idiot mother… yet, she is.

Her family do not have the spare money do be doing this.

Roundthemoon · 12/10/2024 15:41

Why don't you just say no?

Loz2323 · 16/10/2024 07:56

Aandespine · 11/10/2024 14:10

I have a younger brother (30 years old) who I've always been pretty close to. There's an age gap between us, and I've always felt a maternal responsibility towards him. I supported him through his studies, career, and even helped him purchase his first house mortgage free (I selected the house, chose the bank loan for renovation costs, helped with decisions during renovation, sorted out the accounting side of things, helped decide on a tenant, put together a tenancy agreement etc). He lives in my parent's house rent free. Has never paid bills. Has a fairly high earning job considering he has no huge outgoings.

Now, I'd never be in a position to buy a house. I moved out young, had a lot of financial commitments towards my mum/siblings. I was earning a lot when younger, he was still a student, and I was happy to pay for things back then- I paid for holidays for the both of us - flights, accommodation, food (we both love travelling), whenever we eat out, sit in cafés, I'd pay each time.

Over the past couple of years I've hinted that he should be paying his way, and been quite open about my financial situation not being the same as when I was younger, but nothing changed. I was still paying for everything. I got married and started a family recently, stopped working to look after the babies. Granted I see him less frequently now, but whenever we go out the expectation remains that I pay for everything.

We went out the other day with extended family and he didn't even offer to pay his share. I ended up footing the entire bill (didn't want my mum to since I know she's also struggling financially) but have ended up in my overdraft as a result. There were young children with us and I didn't want to cause a scene.

I'm just so ashamed to admit this about him and so so disappointed in him, and myself I guess since I had quite an influence on his upbringing. I don't want to cut contact, but I'm really sick of his selfishness sense of entitlement. What do I do?

For goodness sake stop paying for everything, Tell him he needs to start paying his way especially if you all go out again.

CosyLemur · 16/10/2024 07:57

My personal rule is if I know someone is in financial difficulty (like your mum) we don't invite them to go anywhere together for food/day out if I can't afford to pay for both of us. And people like your brother who expects to be paid for we sent the expectation beforehand that they'll pay. "We're going to x on Sunday the cost is y if you're willing to pay that and you'd like to come let me know"

Botanybaby · 16/10/2024 07:59

He owns a house mortgage free at 30 but lives rent free with your mum who's struggling financially

Ooookay

Creamteasandbumblebees · 16/10/2024 08:06

Send a quick message the day before you next meet up "Hi XXXX, Really looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. I just wanted to let you know in advance so there's no embarrassment tomorrow that I won't be able to foot the bill for you. As you know, I'm not working at the moment and money is really tight so going forward everyone will need to pay their own share. Hope you understand. Love XXXX"

DecoratingDiva · 16/10/2024 08:11

You have created this situation.

you have to be blunt and tell him you will not be bankrolling him anymore.

Why did you do all the stuff for him with buying the house & how much did you put into that on his behalf. Why is he not living in it?

Im completely gobsmacked by this.