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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To go nc with Dsis over private school ?

294 replies

Maria1979 · 16/09/2024 09:50

For background: my older Dsis is a teacher (or was because she's working in another field now) and is against private schools. She has worked in ONE private school for three years and is an expert (according to herself) of how things are done in all schools whether private or not. She has got one DD who went in to the local secondary y7. My DS went in to private school y7 (they're the same age). Ever since she has not stopped with her comments on private schools. According to her they give out good grades because the parents are paying for it. The school we chose is not expensive compared to most and they have a waiting list and only take in children who are already "good students" just like grammar school so I told Dsis that maybe that's why the students got good grades. She would not hear about it. She keeps on praising her DD's school even though staff turnover is high and it's clear that my DS's school is better (pastoral, dedicated staff, well-mannered children etc). I don't tell her that, I just nod, smile and say I'm happy you're happy and leave it at that. She's not jealous; DStepM helped us out with the fees and said she would help Dsis too if she wanted it. Every single time we talk she has to put DS's school down. She has the decency to be subtle about it infront of DS but she still has to say something. I asked her to not be so negative about something she knows nothing about. My DS is highly sensitive and quite fragile and he would be a likely target for bullying in Dsis' DD's school. He is very happy about his school and I wish that she could just leave it.

I'm not exaggerating: every single time I see her she just has to make a snide remark. It's like she's mad at me for not making the same choices as she is. It's gotten to a point where I want to go nc with her because she always makes me so upset and I feel so defensive around her just waiting for her "remark of the day". So AIBU to go nc with her until she has accepted to stop putting down DS's school ?

OP posts:
Gremlins101 · 16/09/2024 13:32

Sounds like overall you need to be a bit more assertive in the relationship with your sister.

It's unreasonable to go no contact. Just tell her you are done discussing it, as it's petty.

Maria1979 · 16/09/2024 13:33

Howmanyusernames123 · 16/09/2024 13:25

But if she chooses not to send her dd to private school she doesn’t get the same chunk of money you do?

I’d never treat my kids that way.

The thing is nobody gets "a chunk of money". She said she's willing to help us out with secondary school because it's a stage where children become teens and it can be quite hard being in a hostile environment. My Dsis was bullied in state school but she must have forgotten. I'm not saying all state schools are bad but the year 6 in state elementary where my DC was bad enough and all those students are going to state so he would be with them. Children as young as 10 who said "I will f%^^ your mum" , talking about subscriptions to pornhub, touching others. The teacher had to spend two hours on consentment training. My dsm read some of the communication sent out from school when picking up DS which prompted her to suggest private school.

OP posts:
JacquelineShit · 16/09/2024 13:35

kittensinthekitchen · 16/09/2024 13:22

Is this wonderful private school the same school that's making your son miserable?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/5161386-school-phobia-secondary-school

Sounds amazing

Interesting.

Perhaps the OP's DS has opened up to his aunt about his feelings, but feels he can't open up to the OP as she won't hear a bad word against the school?

Food for thought.

Calliopespa · 16/09/2024 13:35

Mirabai · 16/09/2024 13:30

You’ve basically asked a forum full of DSISes.. 😆

Edited

I disagree with Dsis viewpoint and behaviour. I just don’t think you go NC because you disagree on an ultimately limited and relatively unimportant issue.

Maria1979 · 16/09/2024 13:37

I think I have misunderstood the concept of nc. I meant it as taking a "timeout", not seeing her for a while. Obviously I would not block her forever! I mean the children won't be in school forever so the conflict will die out. But maybe then my DS will choose to study something of which she doesn't approve 😅

OP posts:
notanotherusername2024 · 16/09/2024 13:41

Calliopespa · 16/09/2024 13:09

Well she had really. That’s exactly what going NC “just until” her sister does what she wants effectively amounts to. It’s using NC as a manipulative tool.

Nope, it's just removing yourself from a bullying scold who harasses you every time you see them.

Everyone has the right not to spend time with a bullying scold.

Maria1979 · 16/09/2024 13:41

kittensinthekitchen · 16/09/2024 13:22

Is this wonderful private school the same school that's making your son miserable?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/5161386-school-phobia-secondary-school

Sounds amazing

It was a rough first week since he didn't know anyone. Happily the staff and schoolmates were amazing: they all comforted him and nobody made fun of him for crying. In state school he would have been severely bullied. Second week he went in with a smile and said he's so lucky to be in such a nice school. 🥰

OP posts:
JudgeJ · 16/09/2024 13:44

She is entitled to an opinion although constantly voicing it would wind me up too.

As I used to say to my mother she is entitled to her opinion on anything but she no reason to expect her opinion to be of any value!

ChampaignSupernova · 16/09/2024 13:44

Before you go no contact you should confront her without so much diplomacy. When she makes the inevitable comment just respond "DSIS everytime I see you we have the same discussion and it's getting tiresome. You made your daughters school choice and I have made my sons and I would appreciate it if you kept your criticism of it to yourself. I don't want to discuss the school any more and I don't want you criticising the choice to my son. He is happy there and that is what matters"

JacquelineShit · 16/09/2024 13:44

Maria1979 · 16/09/2024 13:41

It was a rough first week since he didn't know anyone. Happily the staff and schoolmates were amazing: they all comforted him and nobody made fun of him for crying. In state school he would have been severely bullied. Second week he went in with a smile and said he's so lucky to be in such a nice school. 🥰

What worries me (given that all schools have bullies), is that if he does get bullied, you won't believe him because you seem hell bent on convincing yourself it wouldn't happen in this school.

I wouldn't cut your sister off because she might be the one he needs to go to, if he has any school problems.

JudgeJ · 16/09/2024 13:47

Glittertwins · 16/09/2024 11:47

Seems a bit petty and an over the top reaction. I don't think private schools should be allowed and certainly not opt into different GCSE boards that are (albeit rumoured) to have more lenient grade boundaries however it's up to others how they wish to spend their money. Envy gets us nowhere.

Picking the best exam board isn't limited to private schools, all schools do it and always have, even in the old 'O' levels when NUJMB was always known to be the hardest! Sorry of that doesn't play into the private school rhetoric on here.

JudgeJ · 16/09/2024 13:50

ChampaignSupernova · 16/09/2024 13:44

Before you go no contact you should confront her without so much diplomacy. When she makes the inevitable comment just respond "DSIS everytime I see you we have the same discussion and it's getting tiresome. You made your daughters school choice and I have made my sons and I would appreciate it if you kept your criticism of it to yourself. I don't want to discuss the school any more and I don't want you criticising the choice to my son. He is happy there and that is what matters"

And that's 'without diplomacy'?? Much better 'Look keep you neb out of what doesn't concern you, green isn't your best colour'.

Glittertwins · 16/09/2024 13:53

I'm going from my own conversations with friends on this and maybe I wasn't clear enough / I meant iGCSE which is rumoured to be easier and not offered by state schools here.

VimtoVimto · 16/09/2024 13:54

I think after just over a week it’s hard to tell which school is better.

Heronwatcher · 16/09/2024 13:54

In state school he would have been severely bullied

You know that for a fact do you? Would it surprise you to know that lots of kids have a tough time in state school and teachers/ pupils are very understanding. Equally in many private schools bullying remains a massive issue.

Honestly this massive prejudice against all state schools is really wrong- and if this is the sort of nonsense you come out with or frankly even genuinely believe I’m not surprised your DSis feels she has to keep correcting you. It’s like you’ve judged every state school based on Grange Hill c1991.

godmum56 · 16/09/2024 13:59

I'd say (publicly) "Hello Sis, shall we get the (snotty) private school comment over now and get it out of the way?

SerafinasGoose · 16/09/2024 13:59

Maria1979 · 16/09/2024 10:53

True. It does seem overly dramatic but when I have told her several times I do not want to discuss it and and yet she just can't leave it. I feel that I will explode next time that's why I wanted to go nc for a while until she respects my boundaries.

NC is the nuclear option. It frequently tends to be a permanent solution and you need to be mindful that if you go down this track there might be no coming back.

If you go NC then be absolutely certain this is what you want. A bee in her bonnet about schools - even if it does buzz way too loudly and too often - doesn't necessitate the extremity of complete estrangement, however temporary. That is, not without some far more serious reason or underlying pattern.

Sis is clearly uncomfortable with her own decisions and is seeking to validate them by undermining yours. And she's going about it in a very annoying way and this behaviour is turning her into a repetitive and extremely tedious pain in the arse. I don't think I would baulk at telling her so.

Nanny0gg · 16/09/2024 14:06

SonjaBarkerFinch · 16/09/2024 10:58

How many schools have you worked in?

What's that got to do with anything?

This is parental choice not professional

Mabs49 · 16/09/2024 14:12

I see the dynamic OP.

If she's always been more intelligent than you - or at least posited that idea in your head she's worried your DS is getting a 'better' education and will turn out brighter and with better grades than her DD, making her feel inferior to you for the first time in her life and this area appears to be important to her.

it sounds like her ego and identity are very much tied to her image of being 'clever' and she can't let it go for that reason because her DD is her by extension. She's worried her 'value' to herself and the outside world will slide because possibly your DS will do better. (No guarantee of this of course. Plenty of state school kids do very well and work their arses off in difficult conditions and her DD could be one of these. Likewise there are plenty of private schools that don't get great results at all!)

What do you have in your relationship that you are better at?

Sometimes these things are balanced until an divergence like this comes along and unsettles it all.

She may also think in some unarticulated way that you have undermined her by choosing private because it sounds like she mostly teaches in state school. So by sending private you're saying her job/her whole identity isn't good enough. Ouch. That's a core human truth we all feel - not good enough.

Has she watched this documentary

it sort of shows all sides. For the right person, private school is brilliant. For those that don't need any sort of leg up in life, like the young lady who became a doctor going to Cambridge, she was focused from the start and achieved her dreams anyway.

This may polarise her more watching this.

I'd start to big up state education, her DD, saying you think it's a wonderful school, it's a great place to send her DD, that you've only chosen private because your DS is a bit sensitive and may even have special needs or something l like that.

if you read "the power of now workbook" by Eckhart Tolle it really reveals how many of us act angry and threatened when our status and external image feel threatened. Ego death.

This is what's happening to your Dsis. You need to reassure her that you still think she's amazing and wonderful and clever and intelligent and her DD will do amazing at her state school (because she almost certainly will!) and try to reassure her that you love her.

This is a very 'evolved' way of looking at things. Most people will just have a huge argument and never speak again.

Good luck with the journey of growth!

Final tip: and read the comments below for extra learning!

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Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

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Therightcoffee · 16/09/2024 14:18

I agree with you @Mabs49 think that's really insightful. I always get the biggest aggression from people not that happy with their own situation.

Assuming this isn't a wind up and @Maria1979 wants to improve this situation, love bombing about how well DSIS's dc is doing might just save things.

And she will look like a dick to wide family of she keeps carping on or doesn't adopt the same strategy.

Nobody needs to fight big political battles at the personal level.

Fluufer · 16/09/2024 14:44

So you want to go no contact because your sister doesn't like a school that your DS has been at a couple of weeks and didn't even like himself as of a few days ago? Nor have either of the kids been in secondary school long enough for you to form proper opinions as parents. How on earth have you managed to fall out about this so quickly?

Nenen · 16/09/2024 14:50

Maybe another teacher’s perspective could help you here.

I was a school teacher for over 30 years before becoming a private educational consultant and tutor. I worked in state maintained schools for 20 years, then moved into the independent sector. I moved purely because I was frustrated by the decreasing funding for state education (in real terms) and increasing government interference and constantly changing goal posts (without any properly researched evidence to back up the enforced change).

It was, and still is, extremely painful to see the vocation I love being increasingly controlled by a stream of ministers for education (most of whom have zero expertise in the field) playing political ‘games’ with children’s futures for their own political ends. Meanwhile, more and more teachers are being managed by academy ‘business managers’ (rather than headteachers). Academies have privatised significant parts of our education system by stealth (without conferring any of the benefits independent schools can offer) and managers are often locked into petty power struggles.

When the conflicting demands made on teachers who care passionately about education and put children’s wellbeing at the heart of everything they do became unbearable, I had a stark choice - stay teaching in the state sector and cave in to the pressure to do things I felt were fundamentally NOT in children’s best interest, or get out! It sounds as if your sister made the same decision, which makes it doubly ironic she is now trying to force her views on state v independent schools on you!

When I moved from state schools into the independent sector, I felt as if I’d ‘defected’ as it really went against my political beliefs to work in a system where a select few children are given such a huge advantage. In an ideal world, I believe every child should have the kind of opportunities available to pupils in many independent schools, i.e. smaller classes, in well-resourced and well-kept buildings, with an ethos among staff, parents and pupils that learning is intrinsically rewarding and a good education is the key to increased choices and wellbeing in adult life. If the state provided this level of education for all, (as they do in Scandinavia) there would be no need for private schools and they’d probably cease to exist. Some British state schools come close to managing this - usually the oversubscribed ones in more affluent areas, where parents support this type of ethos and raise additional funds for the school. Is this is the type of school your niece goes to? I wonder if your sister would be quite so vociferous in her opinions if her dd was at a ‘failing’ school with poor exam results!

I’ve come to realise there is never a level playing field where children’s education is concerned! Not only is there huge disparity between schools (both in the state and independent sectors), parents’ own education and earnings, plus the value they place on their children’s education, and their attitude towards schools and teachers are all critical predictors of children’s academic success. Research clearly shows that children who are given access to high quality play activities with lots of adult interaction and children who are read to regularly from the early years onwards do better in school. Yet many parents barely speak to their children, preferring to use TV/tech as a child minder for hours every day and don’t even have a single book in the home. Many parents never take their children to the local library, let alone buy them a book, despite many great children’s books being sold in charity shops for less than a pound! I wonder if your sister would consider it is wrong for her to buy her dd a book or help with her homework etc as this will undoubtedly give your niece an ‘unfair’ advantage over children who get no help from their parents at home.

As for your sister’s comments about private schools giving out good grades because parents are paying for it, surely the ‘proof of the pudding’ is in their public exam results at GCSE and A Level. Having said that, I’d say there’s a grain of truth in what your sister says because in the three independent schools I worked in, plus many others I’ve tutored children from, it has been common for staff to paint a somewhat rosier than reality picture of a child at times. This is particularly common in prep schools with regard to a pupil’s social skills, friendships etc where parents are often led to believe their child is happy at school, well-liked by staff and popular with their peers even when this is patently far from true . However, this is no different to the underplaying of SEND all the state schools I have contact with do regularly because they know that identifying differences and disabilities (unless very severe) will simply result in tons of extra work with no extra resources and little hope of an EHCP. Conversely, all the selective independent schools I know set children for most academic subjects and report their test scores regularly. Hence it is unlikely parents would be unaware how their child is doing compared to their peers at the same school. Furthermore, most independent senior schools publish their GCSE and A Level results, which are obviously measured objectively across all schools so you can easily see at a glance how your ds’ school results compare to your niece’s school results at a glance!

I’m guessing your sister may have made a tough moral decision to put her own beliefs about education above the statistical chances of her own daughter’s future GCSE and A Level grades. Her boringly repetitive attacks on your choices for your ds are possibly rooted in the anxiety she actually feels deep down as to whether she is actually doing the right thing or not. The problem she faces at the moment is only time will tell! If her dd does not do as well as she might have done in years to come, then your sister cannot turn the clock back! She is probably trying to convince herself (much more than you) that she is doing the right thing! People who are secure in their own parental choices do not need to keep trying to belittle or undermine others who make a different choice. Annoying as she is, (and I too would be deeply irritated by her constant sniping) if you can feel and show pity for your sister when she starts sniping, it may have the desired effect!

Alterntively, the quickest way to shut your sister down may be to quote the comparative statistics for the GCSE and A Level results for the two schools (assuming the stats for your ds’s school are better). Next time you visit her, you could say (or even write) something like….

“Right Sisname - that’s enough. This is the final conversation I am prepared to have with you about schools for either your dd or my ds! You may well know more about education than me, but I am still entitled to make my own choices for my son. Before deciding on secondary schools, I carefully considered 3 things: the type of school I believed would be best placed to support my son’s wellbeing, the school I thought he would feel most happy in; and the school he will have the highest chance of getting good GCSE grades. Statistics show he has an X% chance of achieving 9 GCSEs at grade 7 or above at his current school as opposed to Y% chance at the local comp. Therefore, having taken these three things into consideration, I decided to send him to his private school. Whatever his results in 5 years time, I will know I did everything I could to give him the best possible chance of doing well. If you are prepared to gamble your views on private education against your dd’s wellbeing, happiness and grades at her state school, that’s your choice.
You decided to stop teaching in state schools for a reason. If they were that great and you were that dedicated to teaching then you’d go back! I do not criticise you for the choices you’ve made and I don’t expect you to keep criticising mine. It is totally unnecessary for you to justify your own choices by trying to belittle me like this. There is no one size fits all for parents or children and my mind is made up. I am not willing to discuss this any further. Neither am I willing to listen to any more snide comments about the different schools we’ve chosen. I do not want to fall out with you about this so, from now on, every time you make a snide, silly or derisive comment about either of our children’s schools I will end the visit immediately. Let’s just agree to disagree about education and talk about something else.
What did you think of …….(any random subject you both have an interest in)?”

If your sister tries to argue then simply get up and walk out. Keep doing this at every visit until she stops!

Maria1979 · 16/09/2024 15:00

Mabs49 · 16/09/2024 14:12

I see the dynamic OP.

If she's always been more intelligent than you - or at least posited that idea in your head she's worried your DS is getting a 'better' education and will turn out brighter and with better grades than her DD, making her feel inferior to you for the first time in her life and this area appears to be important to her.

it sounds like her ego and identity are very much tied to her image of being 'clever' and she can't let it go for that reason because her DD is her by extension. She's worried her 'value' to herself and the outside world will slide because possibly your DS will do better. (No guarantee of this of course. Plenty of state school kids do very well and work their arses off in difficult conditions and her DD could be one of these. Likewise there are plenty of private schools that don't get great results at all!)

What do you have in your relationship that you are better at?

Sometimes these things are balanced until an divergence like this comes along and unsettles it all.

She may also think in some unarticulated way that you have undermined her by choosing private because it sounds like she mostly teaches in state school. So by sending private you're saying her job/her whole identity isn't good enough. Ouch. That's a core human truth we all feel - not good enough.

Has she watched this documentary

it sort of shows all sides. For the right person, private school is brilliant. For those that don't need any sort of leg up in life, like the young lady who became a doctor going to Cambridge, she was focused from the start and achieved her dreams anyway.

This may polarise her more watching this.

I'd start to big up state education, her DD, saying you think it's a wonderful school, it's a great place to send her DD, that you've only chosen private because your DS is a bit sensitive and may even have special needs or something l like that.

if you read "the power of now workbook" by Eckhart Tolle it really reveals how many of us act angry and threatened when our status and external image feel threatened. Ego death.

This is what's happening to your Dsis. You need to reassure her that you still think she's amazing and wonderful and clever and intelligent and her DD will do amazing at her state school (because she almost certainly will!) and try to reassure her that you love her.

This is a very 'evolved' way of looking at things. Most people will just have a huge argument and never speak again.

Good luck with the journey of growth!

Final tip: and read the comments below for extra learning!

Wow, thank you. Very insightful post. Definitely need to think about this one. Because it is awkward the way she's going on about it. If it's about her feeling her position is being undermined it makes me understand her reaction better. I might not like it but I need a new approach: reassuring her she still is the smartest sister (she is) and underlining the fact that smart kids excell everywhere (this is true) and that I'm sure her daughter will get some survival skills that my son is missing out on and it's also good to be in a mixed environment (which I believe but I would just take out the kids that are constantly misbehaving). My DS has two good friends whose parents are immigrants and I am really happy for him to learn about other cultures first hand.

Thank you for helping me see everything from another perspective. This is exactly why I posted. Some others have been helpful as well but I think you really helped me change my way of thinking.

OP posts:
saraclara · 16/09/2024 15:02

If she tells you something positive about her child's school, you say "cool, that's really good"

If she puts down your child's school, you say "I told you that this subject is not up for discussion" and change the subject.

Sorted.

Maria1979 · 16/09/2024 15:08

Heronwatcher · 16/09/2024 13:54

In state school he would have been severely bullied

You know that for a fact do you? Would it surprise you to know that lots of kids have a tough time in state school and teachers/ pupils are very understanding. Equally in many private schools bullying remains a massive issue.

Honestly this massive prejudice against all state schools is really wrong- and if this is the sort of nonsense you come out with or frankly even genuinely believe I’m not surprised your DSis feels she has to keep correcting you. It’s like you’ve judged every state school based on Grange Hill c1991.

Let me reframe it: in this particular state school he would have been bullied for crying. I know a lot of the y7 as DS just recently started private school. Sure there are excellent schools. This is not known to be one of them why the teachers keep being burnt out and leaving the school.

OP posts: