To ask if another man has ever stepped in when you were being harassed?

[CoffySalon]

So, I was on the tube today and had a horrible experience with a guy harassing me. He was invading my personal space, touching me, putting his face and body close too close to mine, and saying things. It was really uncomfortable and no one else was doing anything.

Then, out of nowhere, a guy nearby - who I assume was with his girlfriend - quietly stepped in between us without saying a word. It was so subtle, but the harasser seemed to get the message and stopped, at least for a moment. His girlfriend even smiled at me, like she knew what was happening and wanted to reassure me.

At the next stop, which happened to be this couple’s stop, the guy didn’t rush off. He turned to me and asked quietly “are you okay?” I told him “Yes, thank you” and just before he left, both he and his girlfriend suggested I move to where they had been standing, even pointing out a seat. Unfortunately, someone sat in the seat before I could take it.

As soon as they left though, the guy started harassing me, and no one else did anything except for a few women who smiled in sympathy, but didn’t step in.

This man’s quiet intervention meant so much to me, and I just wanted to share my appreciation for him, but also to ask: has anyone else ever experienced a man stepping in to help like this? And what did you do when it happened?

Would love to hear your stories and thoughts.

Andrew Tate is the opposite of a true gentleman though. He has a warped and twisted view of masculinity. I LOVE masculinity, I love men using their strength for good and treating women as ladies. I love men taking responsibility for their families and treating their wives/ girlfriends wirh tender loving care. Masculinity in terms of fierce loyalty and honesty- yes, I would respect a man like that- but Tate is few of those things. Tate uses women for sex, and has history of abusive behaviour. Tate is not the definition of masculinity. Tate abuses his masculinity.

Following up on the pretending you know someone thing:

https://settlement.org/ontario/daily-life/transportation/public-transit/bystander-intervention-what-can-i-do-if-i-spot-someone-being-harassed-in-public/

Distract
Distraction is a subtle and creative way to intervene when you see a situation developing. By interrupting the situation, you derail the attention of the harasser.
For example, let's say you see a woman being harassed by a man standing too close to her in a crowded bus and he insists on talking to her when her body language is saying she is not interested and uncomfortable. You could walk up to the woman and pretend to know her and ask her how she’s been. You can also pretend to be lost and needing directions.
You could say something like, “Excuse me, I need to get here (point at your phone), do you know if I’m going the right way?”. You might want to type a message on your phone that says “Are you ok?” and show the victim that you are checking up to make sure they are ok. If you feel safe, you can use your body to separate and stand or sit between her and the harasser to break up the situation. You can also simply ask for the time because your phone died. The idea is to get creative in coming up with an excuse to disrupt the harasser and the situation.
Don’t make eye contact or direct the conversation towards the harasser. Always talk to the victim directly and create a distraction. The person being targeted will likely catch on to what you’re doing. Once the harasser has stopped, make sure to ask the targeted person if they are ok and need any further help.

I hate Andrew Tate and all he stands for. I just thought you had made the wrong assumption when reading that original post.

No need to be snarky. It was in good faith in case you had read it wrong.

It would be useful to also explain what we can do if we witness a, woman attacking a male or female stranger on the train (as I once witnessed, as it happens she was with a partner who was futilely trying to calm her down) as woman can be threatening and abusive to men and other women.

Surely that is the safest, least non violent action for the woman and their "saviour"? Why make the situation more unstable and aggressive and put himself and a stranger (the woman) at further risk?

The rapist Andrew Tate? Or some other desperate figure?

When I was young and woefully naive, I drank too much and stayed way longer than intended in a bar after work (I worked on a university campus for context and normally cycled to and from - I was in no fit state to cycle). A work colleague said he'd drive me home. I went up to the bar to take my empties back and a male bartender asked if he could call me a taxi and I said 'it's ok he's offered me a lift' pointing at colleague and the male bartender said 'no, let me call you a taxi' - and tried several times to insist that he call me taxi. I wouldn't let him (was young and broke so didn't want to pay for a taxi and drunk and felt I was invincible). The male colleague tried to rape me. I did manage to get away through sheer dumb luck but I always remember that bartender who obviously either knew what that man was like or read the signs.

My (male) boss told me 'not to be difficult' when I reported the attempted rape to him and 'well, nothing happened did it, so it's all fine'. I left soon after.

Nope

As has been said a few times... diffusing is better than escalating.

Telling them to "fuck off" will only provoke them. Then the intervener might well get hurt as well as the victim, perhaps worse.

Distracting by making them think the victim has friends, and especially a boyfriend, around is more likely to put the creep off and make them move off

"Compared to the hundreds of times I'm been harassed by men when no one stepped in. And women have stepped in many more times than men."

Statistically men are far more likely to end up being assaulted by another man than women are, whereas it is frowned upon for men to hit women and rare for it to happen in public at least.

If men are not stepping in, it's probably because they are not prepared to risk or think it's unlikely they would win the the physical confrontation that would result

Hence the "are you ok babe" approach ...

I was a very young trainee. Had a late meeting with a barrister and our mutual client. I left with the client he wa going to give me a lift. Heard thundering footsteps it was the barrister. He told the client to go ahead as we had some further points to discuss. When he had gone the barrister said I was mental to be getting into the clients car on my own and called me a cab.

A man once tried to grab my tit out of nowhere at a bus stop late at night in town when I was about 17. We were in the gay quarter and this bloke had been muttering and jeering to his mates the whole time. A very dolled-up trans woman got between me and the bloke, whacked his hand away and told him to fuck off.

No, never, not once but I have stepped in to help others getting harrassed.

Exactly. I'm happy to step in, because it's very unlikely that the male would react by attacking me physically. If a man stepped in and called the pest out on his behaviour, he'd likely get punched. The ensuing fracas wouldn't help the situation at all, and certainly wouldn't help the woman.

If I was being bothered by a man, I'd far prefer a male rescuer to intervene calmly and pretend he knew me. I wouldn't need the extra stress of testosterone fuelled aggression.

So sorry this happened to you.

I was on the tube once, about 8 pm at night, and the bloke opposite stuck his leg out and started lifting my skirt. I was about 22/23 and terrified, everyone was averting their eyes. I was frozen to the spot and didn't move while he was squirming around, sticking his trainer on my skirt hem and laughing.

I got off the train earlier than my stop as I was frightened he'd follow me home. Horrible memory.

Now I'm 67 and able to defend myself, no-one is ever going to do that to me. I wish I had this confidence then, I'd have had his foot and pulled him off the seat straight on the floor.

A lot of the time when I see men intervening, this is what comes to mind:

Completelyneutralname · Yesterday 21:21

I had a similar thought but then realised that it’s the best way to minimise the chance of them getting into a risky situation. Direct confrontation could lead to physical aggression whereas pretending to be the boyfriend is more subtle.

That's it exactly, I worked that out at school. I stuck up for a couple of girls and got punched for it. The next time, I was out of school and saw some boys hassling a girl I recognised and said, "Don't talk to my cousin like that!" If they think there's a family, or romantic connection, they're far more likely to back off.

Tell me you're a misandrist, without telling me you're a misandrist.

In a club when I was younger a guy was “dancing up on me” and trying to be handsy but I couldn’t get away from him. Another random guy asked him to get off his girlfriend and handy guy backed off. Nice guy then just smiled and walked off.

I understand that.

With me, I was in my early 20s and didn't actually KNOW that men did this kind of thing in daylight in public on a bus.

It took me a while to appreciate that his 'swaying' into my arm wasn't only as the bus went round a corner, because I could feel him getting hard. But for quite a while I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt, silly as that sounds now.

Like another poster here, who described how a man tried to lift her skirt up with his foot, on the tube, and said now she's in her 60s she'd deal with this stuff differently.

At the time when it happened, I was afraid people would think I'd imagined it because he was wearing a thick wool coat so nothing was visible.

I can still see his hot and sweaty face when I stood up to get off the bus (before him) and I still regret not saying something to shame him.

Oddly the time that sticks out for me is from school. I was a small, nerdish girl who mostly kept to myself and didn't really get targeted but one day for whatever reason the sporty boys chased me down a corridor and pushed me to the ground - we were all about 13. I think they wanted to see my homework but I can't remember clearly at all. Another sporty boy, who I didn't know well but was friends with them, saw them and immediately ran after them and told them to get off me, and physically pulled one of his mates off.

As an adult I used to go clubbing and partying a lot, and I always used to notice when our male friends would "block" creeps off from us in clubs - just a subtle "I was dancing there and now I'm dancing here" but now physically placed between the creepy guy and us. That happened almost every week.

Once at a house party there was a group of us doing mushrooms. There was a girl I didn't know who mentioned she was doing her A levels that year (and should not have been at the party with 25-year-olds!). Once everyone got a bit spaced out another guy (who I didn't know) put his hand on her knee, and she obviously froze/freaked a bit - one of my friends calmly and without a word removed his hand, placed it on the floor, and then kept it there (we then slowly got the girl away from him).

Last NYE, DP and I were coming home on the night tube at stupid o'clock and slowly realised that a man near us was being a bit... too much, talking to a girl he didn't know. Nothing inappropriate per se but just leaning in too close, not taking her cues that she didn't want to talk. DP acted first - the girl mentioned she was a politics student so he promptly leaned over and started talking politics with her. Creepy guy promptly got off at the next stop.

That's often what they rely on, isn't it - that you'll be too shy and embarrassed to make a scene and call them out. Causing that fear and embarrassment gives them a kick.That's why they target young women and girls. Makes me so angry 😠

No......but my OH has a lovely scar on his forehead from him intervening when a man and woman were fighting. They both turned on him and he had seven shades of shit knocked out of him. He said he'll never get involved again, the most he'll do now is phone the police from a distance and he's done that since.

For me the best approach is to just pretend you know someone or are with them. It's none confrontational and deescalates a situation easily. I've done this on a train when a woman was being harrased. She came and sat with us and that was the end of it. Playing hero in a lot of situations isn't worth the risk.

Years ago, my daughter's husband grabbed me outside the court he knew I'd be attending (TV license). He was dressed in leathers, motorbike helmet - this big guy hanging onto my arm. I was (attempting to seem) calm, repeating "Let go of my arm". A man stopped, asked me, "You alright, love?" and the grabber said to him, "It's alright, it's my mother-in-law," and the bloke nodded and walked off!

I remembered another important time, for which I am very grateful to the men who intervened.

I was a teenager and left a club alone crying (after an argument with friends) and had booked a taxi for up the street. When I was walking to it a guy tried to grab me and pull me into an alley off the street. I started yelling and a group of lads way up at the top of the street shouted back. I can’t remember exactly what he said but the attacker said something to indicate we were a couple having an argument. So the group of lads started walking away again and the guy returned to trying to pull me in the alley. I started shouting again and luckily the group of lads decided to turn back and see what was going on and the attacker gave up. I burst into tears and the guys walked me to my taxi.

The saddest part was I didn’t even think to report it to the police. I just saw it as a slight escalation of the harassment (being groped, followed, bothered etc) I faced every time I went on a night out. I remember thinking: this new dress obviously made me look like a sl**, I’ll never wear it again.

And I never did 😔

Slightly different twist and of course assaults are not a woman’s fault but I had a rather stupid/naive friend in my youth. My female friend was pinned up against a wall by a rough type outside a pub. We told her not to go off with him, and she laughed, she had form for it, so we kept peering out of the window to keep an eye (and another time she went to a building site with a builder at night and then was surprised he tried to assault her).My other lovely male friend intervened at the pub and got a broken nose for it. I actually thought the female friend was a massive idiot, the broken nose wasn’t her fault but because she was always not aware of who she mixed with, it could have been avoided, I could see this drunken lout a mile off and she went outside with him and my poor friend had to be gallant and rescue her.