solo day out - unwanted company

[FrescoeDay]

I actually know I'm not being unreasonable but my reaction may be out of proportion and I need help wording my response for my desired outcome - solitude.

I'm on a sort of retreat in Italy. Tomorrow I arranged to go on a day trip away from the base to look at some art. I'd arranged for the car to the station, bought my train ticket and was looking forward to it. I told my next door room mate who told someone else who over dinner tonight said he was coming along 'if I didn't mind.' Of course I don't mind him going to the town and looking at the art. If he is here a week it is his opportunity. Of course I don't mind if he catches the same train - although, honestly, I don't want to chat and be friendly and 'on' for an hour plus on the train there (and back?!) Why should I?

I do not want to spend 6 hours going around museums galleries, churches, having lunch, with a stranger. I prefer to look at art alone at my own pace and have my own responses. But over dinner I could hardly say that. The prick (pardon me) cornered me. I am so angry I'm finding it hard to relax. This may be disproportionate. The thing is I am quite able to be cold and freeze people if I feel like it - but I don't want to introduce awkwardness let alone animosity. I am meeting the driver of the retreat tomorrow morning and this other unwanted guest. I don't want to stop him if this is his one chance to go to the town. But I refuse to have my day stolen from me because I end up being polite to this man. I need a healthy middle ground. I am 46. I can't believe I am still being imposed on like this. I don't want to snap but I may.

Thanks for hearing me out. Perspective needed. This has touched a nerve you can tell. I would just never ever do this.

FFS. I referenced that there are loads of posts that show yet again how men can be coercive and predatory and not pick up in cues etc. I’m am raising a son and thought that all of us who have experienced these shit situations are well placed to know what might help me, as a WOMAN, and a FEMINIST, and someone that became an adult at a time when coercion of women into sex was a norm, think of helpful conversations and advice that I can give my son who is in the cusp of adolescence so that the next generation of WOMEN won’t have to put up with this shit. And some posters have been extremely helpful. Done have been unnecessarily aggressive. I’m not the enemy here.

Stop going on about your son's feelings on a thread about utter male obliviousness to the feelings and discomfort of women.

I have a son. I'm not worried about him dating because he understands how to respect people's boundaries and not invade other people's space.

A bit like you've let in trying to hijack this thread to talk about what you want to talk about, despite everyone else telling you they don't want to talk about it.

Maybe your son takes after you and that's why he's struggling to read social cues from girls?

@CarleyBup , what has triggered that reaction is that:

• you seem to be drawing a false equivalence between the OP's nightmare male guest and someone who doesn't quite know how to approach people (he's not a 12 year old feeling their way, but a grown man highly skilled in extorting attention from women) and that false equivalence is annoying because this wide eyed "but how was I to KNOW" is a male tactic, whether you are using it here in the service of males or not;
• why is men's social inadequacy (rather crude term, not suggesting your 12 year old is actually inadequate) women's problem to solve? Tell him to ask his dad, if he was so "sweet" back in the day.
• And why here? Why on this thread? this thread isn't about 12 year olds who don't know how to make friends, unless you make it one, and then everyone who has ever wanted to tell a domineering middle aged man to fuck off will feel vaguely guilty

At what point exactly have I gone on about my sons feelings.

OP shared a problem about a man who has shown problematic behaviour.

Lots of us shared the times when we have experienced similar behaviours.

As a woman who grew up at a time when coercion into sex was the norm, has been out of the dating scene for a long time, is equally outraged by shit make behaviour as you are and as a mother to a son about to head into puberty I feel partly responsible for making sure he turns out better. So I asked the question.

So it went:

Specific problem raised.
problem identified on the thread as a prolific problem
I started to think about how it can change. So I asked a question. So it went from specific question to generalised issues to one part of the solution. It’s called a conversation.

Some people answered thoughtfully others have been arseholes.

Maybe I am being a bit brusque about this but I feel that feeling I get when someone is demanding some extra patience / forbearance off me by parading their child with an ingratiating smile and assuming I will stop my conversation and watch their kid / put up with their football in the picnic spot, because they have spotted that I, too, am a "mum" and therefore have all the kindness and patience in the world for their annoying offspring who is usually a large loud badly mannered boy who is getting in the way of my girls

Because it's not our problem to solve.
Because the level of delicacy and empathy required to help a 12 year old boy is tiring and is inappropriately demanded on a thread about a grown up arsehole.
Because you are making a mistake about the level of good faith grown men have about out feelings and comfort and safety.
Because your user name is really annoying and give me a horrible feeling that may have socially handicapped your son by tweeness, whininess, and by thinking caffeine is a hard drug, and that makes me feel bad for him and even more irritated by the obligation to help the poor child.

I haven’t drawn any equivalence to the OPs post at all. I was drawing on the repeated posts about women feeling harangued by men who fancy them. A GENERAL THEME. And so I asked a general question. Drawing on the wisdom of some of the women on here.

My question was not about men’s social inadequacy. My question was a parenting question on a parenting forum. As women we have huge insight into how it feels and so I thought there might be some helpful insights to help me as a WOMAN and a mother in my role as a parent. And there was. Thanks to a couple of wise and thoughtful posters.

Why in this thread? Because loads of women on this thread have shared their stories of shit male behaviour leading to a more generalised discussion of the issue. The OP has dealt with her situation (awesomely) and it has become a more general discussion. A bit like a conversation might. A specific problem was raised, solved and lead to a generalised discussion about shit male behaviour which led to me thinking about how I can do my best as a MOTHER.

And because I KNEW the guy was going to be pushy. Right back at the beginning when the OP was saying "why am I this angry already?" and some others were saying "don't you think you are overreacting" - back then I already KNEW that he was going to be one of these guys SKILLED in sucking your lifeforce and it drives me mad when people collude in some idea that it's all a well meant misunderstanding, it drives me absolutely fucking nuts, because even if it is, it is EXHAUSTING being the one who has to go around gently smilingly correcting "misunderstandings". And I don't want to smile gently on dear little baby Carleybup in his caffeine free traidcraft house on this thread, I want a fucking day off

Erm. Ok.

When did I collude?

By putting forward an idea that a nice 12 year old boy might not know how not to turn into this guy unless we all put our heads together as women and solve this massive problem that the poor men have

Do you know what. I asked a thoughtful question and you have been fucking horrible. Your misplaced anger towards me would be better directed elsewhere. No idea what all this Traidcraft nonsense is but clearly you have some idea about me and are trying to upset me. Why?

That is not what I did. And you know it. Take your misplaced anger elsewhere.

"That is not what I did. And you know it."
That's exactly what you did.

" Take your misplaced anger elsewhere."
ok now that is fair enough I guess, sorry. going now

Well in that case being shitty to me because I happen to have had a boy and happen to have asked a thoughtful question, is of course justified. FFS.

It is NOT what I did. You have totally misrepresented it because of your own biases.

Just be honest BEFORE you go x

@CarleyBup Please, Start Your Own Post'

Thank You

A thread is an open conversation. It started with a specific issue (since solved) that led to others posting their similar stories and a more general discussion about shit male behaviour generally. I added to that by asking about how to make a difference as both someone who has experienced such shit behaviour and as a mother to a son about to hit puberty. There were a couple of excellent and helpful responses. Since then I have mainly only then posted defences against the horrible posts aimed at me and will continue to do so. So you can step back as the thread Police. Thanks though. Perhaps you should think about whether your post adds anything remotely constructive before adding in to the pile on on me. A woman, mother and feminist NOT one of the shit men you are actually angry with.

Please, Start Your Own Post'

Thank You

I agree.

I have been piled on on THIS thread and will continue to defend myself if it continues.

At what point exactly have I gone on about my sons feelings.

OP shared a problem about a man who has shown problematic behaviour.

*Lots of us shared the times when we have experienced similar behaviours.

As a woman who grew up at a time when coercion into sex was the norm, has been out of the dating scene for a long time, is equally outraged by shit make behaviour as you are and as a mother to a son about to head into puberty I feel partly responsible for making sure he turns out better. So I asked the question.

So it went:

Specific problem raised.
problem identified on the thread as a prolific problem
I started to think about how it can change. So I asked a question. So it went from specific question to generalised issues to one part of the solution. It’s called a conversation.

Some people answered thoughtfully others have been arseholes.*

On a thread where women were sharing experiences highlighting male behaviour as a problem, you co-opted the discussion to make it about trying to solve your son's (and by extension, men's) problems.

It's inappropriate and tone deaf to the rest of the discussion.

Rather than reflect on this, you keep doubling down.

This might be a public forum but that doesn't mean you can derail threads with impunity. If you really want to talk about a particular topic, start your own thread.

Hello,

we have received some reports about derailing which we are looking into and will get in touch with concerned posters off the boards, but we would like to remind all posters to please keep discussions directly related to the OP’s posts.

Thanks!

I looked for ways to take responsibility for my part of the solution. I asked for help in my role as a mother. At no point did I talk about my sons feelings. And raisingthe next generation to be decent human beings is a parental issue. This is a parenting forum. I don’t agree I derailed the thread. Jumping on me ferociously has derailed the thread. I asked a related question leading on from the discussion and got a couple of very thoughtful replies. I would not have added anything else. But I do reserve the right to reply when people are misinterpreting my posts and being nasty. I won’t be silenced. The OP has already magnificently solved her problem and the thread didn’t start out as a general discussion about shit male behaviour. It moved on to that.

I am incredibly tired of reading threads on here where women talk about their uniquely female experiences of dealing with crap male behaviour and knowing that it will only be a matter of time before someone pops up with a post along the lines of 'but what about the men?'

Whether you intended it to be or not, your post was a variant of that. Several people have pointed it out to you. Perhaps if you reflected on it instead of doubling down, you might come to understand that whether or not you meant to do it, that is what you have in fact done.