solo day out - unwanted company

[FrescoeDay]

I actually know I'm not being unreasonable but my reaction may be out of proportion and I need help wording my response for my desired outcome - solitude.

I'm on a sort of retreat in Italy. Tomorrow I arranged to go on a day trip away from the base to look at some art. I'd arranged for the car to the station, bought my train ticket and was looking forward to it. I told my next door room mate who told someone else who over dinner tonight said he was coming along 'if I didn't mind.' Of course I don't mind him going to the town and looking at the art. If he is here a week it is his opportunity. Of course I don't mind if he catches the same train - although, honestly, I don't want to chat and be friendly and 'on' for an hour plus on the train there (and back?!) Why should I?

I do not want to spend 6 hours going around museums galleries, churches, having lunch, with a stranger. I prefer to look at art alone at my own pace and have my own responses. But over dinner I could hardly say that. The prick (pardon me) cornered me. I am so angry I'm finding it hard to relax. This may be disproportionate. The thing is I am quite able to be cold and freeze people if I feel like it - but I don't want to introduce awkwardness let alone animosity. I am meeting the driver of the retreat tomorrow morning and this other unwanted guest. I don't want to stop him if this is his one chance to go to the town. But I refuse to have my day stolen from me because I end up being polite to this man. I need a healthy middle ground. I am 46. I can't believe I am still being imposed on like this. I don't want to snap but I may.

Thanks for hearing me out. Perspective needed. This has touched a nerve you can tell. I would just never ever do this.

@CarleyBup

Yes! I think two aspects that arent helpful are:

1. Us and them attitude. This creates a conflict between genders where women are viewed by men from a hostile competitive place of needing to be "conquered" and won over as some kind of stupid prize. There is a mystique built up around women whereby men say stuff like "I just dont understand women"- well, they would if they actually listened to what we had to say. Listen to us and ask us. Then you'll get your answers.
2. Reaction to rejection. If you view rejection as a reflection on your entire worth as a person then of course you might feel angry and hostile but there is no need to feel like that. Just because someone doesnt want to date you doesnt mean they think you're a shit person just as you dont wish to date every woman you might meet. I liken it to going to a restaurant. I always order the same thing at restaurants because I like them. That doesnt mean that every other option on the menu is revolting and rubbish. It just means that I prefer that particular dish. It would be ridiculous for the chef to come out and shout abuse at me because I ordered the salmon rather than the steak. Same with dating. We need to be ok with people not wanting to date us- it isnt a reflection on our worth and so no need to be furious or embarrassed about it.

CarleyBup

Why don't you suggest he imagine a girl asking him out, but he isn't attracted to her and he wants to nicely refuse.

How would he turn her down, and what reaction to his refusal would he like her to have?

Then he can reflect on whether she should be devastated and humiliated because he said No Thanks, and perhaps he can apply this to himself for the future.

There's wilful misunderstanding of any thread and then there's poor reading comprehension skills.

I'm often struck by how often posters insert all kind of details that the OP hasn't mentioned, which inevitably creates an incorrect version of events. But intentionally or not - no idea. I'm sure I've misread stuff and my brain definitely inserts things that aren't there.

OP handled it well. Who of us hasn't been put on the spot, only to think later 'why didn't I say that? Why didn't I do that?' It's human, and it takes most of us a while to think of the perfect response.

And I get the feeling, as OP said I think, that she was more annoyed with herself than the man.

FWIW, I always go round art galleries etc by myself even if I walked in with a very old & dear friend, never mind a hanger-on. I don't want or need the company of others for that

Well, ask him what's so frightening about ridicule? You ask someone out, they're fully entitled to say no. They could have a myriad of reasons for not wanting to accept. He shouldn't have any defence mechanism or bravado around it at all. If he's laughed at, he should shrug his shoulders and remind his peers 'no problem, it's up to her' and move on, even if it is disappointing. Remembering it's a two part, equal process, one person is entitled to ask, the other is entitled to accept or decline, ridicule is entirely a schoolyard thing, adult friends don't do this to each other habitually for asking people may feel quite liberating. But at his age, the main thing to bear in mind may be that girls aren't another species and can be great friends approached with no agenda.

I agree.

But there were two physiological processes going on in this instance which caught her off guard and caused her confusion and irritation with herself which she acknowleges.

Her eyes and ears and brain processed his words and actions - which were out of the blue and she was knocked off kilter so in that moment she complied.

However her gut was at the same time ringing alarm signals about other communication / environment info - maybe his body posture, eye contact, tone of voice, facial expression - even the Q how does he know her plans when she hadnt told him.

Her brain then took a few moments to catch up with her brain and filter in this below the line info. Thats when she became alarmed and need to sense check online. Future communications in the taxi confirmed what her gut but not her brain had originally warned her about risk/threat.

Its OK to take time to reassess a situation and reach another decision.

If he tries that then @FrescoeDay should be blunt and say, I am certain that I do not fancy you so leave me alone.

No, leave fancying out of it. “I was just trying to be friendly” etc etc. it’s not that she doesn’t fancy him, it’s that she doesn’t owe him her time or to give up her pleasant day for his comfort.

Men know perfectly well that sexual harassment is a thing, so they are always denying sexually harassing you when that’s not the only form of harassment.

Agree

Very interesting to see how a thread by a woman, about an issue very commonly experienced by women in their interactions with men, has now been diverted into discussion of problems experienced by boys and men. Yet another example of women's space having men's needs and wants imposed on it.

TBF i'm usually quite annoyed by thread hijackers but answered this one thinking the OP's query had been resolved so it didn't matter if it meandered a bit

This man + OP. Sometimes you just know, and you don't need to give them the benefit of the doubt because there isn't any doubt.

What are you banging on about? This man is not a 12 year old boy. And he did not "ask the OP out". He told her he was coming with her on her day out.

It has no relevance to your child, or his/your future fears.

IN NO WAY am I trying to "trump" your experiences, but I too was accosted by a thirtysomething CREEP when I was 14. After what seemed like a lifetime (but was probably about 10 minutes) in which he told me, among other things, that he "had 11 inches specially for me", an elderly lady "rescued" me and he bolted. It was HORRIBLE.

Good on that lady! I think it's important for women as we grow older and more attuned to this bullshit that we look out for younger women and girls in these situations. I remember how impossible it felt to escape from a creepy man on public transport, for example, as a teenage girl.

I’d never ever tell a lone man no in private as that can be dangerous. Always in company and really firmly so others can hear too even if they are pretending to not be listening

I think that if/when they do kick off when you express your boundary / prefernce politely - its a moment to doubly congratuate yourself on your action as they have proved you right that they are unsafe

Why are you so angry, before even making it clear to him that you don't want to spend the day together?

What?!?
I honestly wonder how some people get through life.

@JMSA - you know there is the facility to read just the OP’s posts - all of them on the thread - so you can fully engage in the developing discussion?

I am seriously wondering if this bloke decided that this retreat would be a smorgasbord of lonely women just waiting to meet him. I’m guessing he stereotyped the demographic and went with a predatory agenda. Maybe it would be worth emailing the group leader/organiser and getting them to have a “wee chat”.

That's good, @HolidayAtNight ! Do you know who the artist is?

I love it, it captures that type of annoying pest so perfectly!

Berthold Woltze - Wikipedia

Yes she was great. That was actually only 6 years ago (I'm now 20) and "elderly" lady to me she was probably about 60.
But you're so right - I've been mindful since that of other girls dealing with dodgy men. And public transport yes. I'm what ppl call "conventionally pretty" and that seems to be an invite to creepy
pr|¢ks to sit next to me!

NO! A problem that I am dealing with thank you. As a woman who has experienced toxic male behaviour and wants to raise HER son as well as possible. How the fuck do you think things will change unless we start when the are young!

FFS. I referenced that there are loads of posts that show yet again how men can be coercive and predatory and not pick up in cues etc. I’m am raising a son and thought that all of us who have experienced these shit situations are well placed to know what might help me, as a WOMAN, and a FEMINIST, and someone that became an adult at a time when coercion of women into sex was a norm, think of helpful conversations and advice that I can give my son who is in the cusp of adolescence so that the next generation of WOMEN won’t have to put up with this shit. And some posters have been extremely helpful. Done have been unnecessarily aggressive. I’m not the enemy here.