Teenagers joining in with adult meals with guests

[axolotlfloof]

Our kids are mid to older teens.
Last 2 times we have had dinner at friends' houses (without our children) friends' teenage daughters have been at the meal (fine) and then have stayed and joined in (which obviously affects what can be discussed) until we have left. I don't really want to leave my kids at home to hang out with other people's teens.
Now friend has texted to say her teenage daughter will join us for dinner out at the weekend.
Aibu to think this is poor etiquette?
I like seeing these kids and knowing they are doing alright. I don't particularly want to spend the evening with them.
Aibu?

My sons wouldn't want to come. The girls aren't their friends. They would rather stay home.
At our house I we had guests, they would come for food, polite chit chat, and disappear.

I think it’s bad manners of your friend to invite anyone - even her own daughter to a social event that want meant for her.

I agree with this although maybe the friend thought the invitation was for the family, not just the couple?

That shows why clarity is important - ‘We’d like to invite you and Dougie to dinner on Friday…the kids will be out (implying adult only)…would your darling Clarissa and Hugo like to join us?

We haven’t actually engineered it but it usually works out that kids join us for the meal and disappear after dessert to do their own thing/watch tv/whatever. I do think it is important to eat as a family and for children (especially old children and teenagers) to learn how to interact socially with adults.

Yes. And I think I felt obliged to centre the conversation around her. So I know all about her gcses but nothing about my friends health or family issues.

At home I think it really depends on what the evening / adults in question are like. The PP was talking about proper discourse etc. Well they all sounds very Margo and Jerry from the good life - lovely but not what my friends are like when we meet 🤣 For me it’s a chance to let my hair down, be me not ‘mum’ To say things I wouldn’t say around my kids. To share personal stories or problems or memories with friends. Lots of things I wouldn’t want friends kids hearing about! It’s not that they haven’t heard worse. It’s not about that.

We all have a slightly different side of ourselves we preset to different people. Particularly when it comes to talking to a child / taking to an adult friend. I think it would be pretty strange for someone to act exactly the same with a 15 year old and an adult friend.

OP I agree it’s strange but a diffficiot one. If it were me, I would have a gentle chat with my friend and next time it’s arranged to go out I would say it would be lovely to go out just the adults if that’s ok.

Politics and work are not for teenagers' ears? They need to hear about those things.
Mutual friends - ok if you're really slagging them off or discussing their secrets I suppose.

All this performative puzzlement about why you might not want to talk freely in front of kids just makes people look limited and boring, not gracious and sophisticated as they probably imagine.

Obviously it is good for teens to experience adult socialising. obviously it is part of the role of the parent and surrounding adults to facilitate that some of the time. And you can even enjoy it. But it's not the same as just hanging out with your friends unless your friends are boring and judgemental and set a very fake dynamic, in which case, I am sorry for you.

My sister is one of those people who has always had her kids around her and thinks there is no requirement for any additional sophistication than that which can be achieved in their presence, which is extremely limiting

I agree OP. It changes the dynamic when anyone 'extra' is in a group of friends, and especially teens who will not be interested in the same topics and who you will not want to tell personal info to. Surely you can't talk about your kids very openly and neither can the hosts. You would have to change the topics of conversation to make them appropriate for the age. That's how I feel, anyway.

It could still be enjoyable if the teens were mature and joined in, but it's a different vibe for sure.

@SaffronsMadAboutMe I've also read this exact thread before with the exact same OP comments.

Each woman in our book club takes it in turn to host. We met through our children so we all have them of various ages. None of them really want to join in with us, in the same way I don't want to hang out with my sons' friends.
If the host's children are around then we'll usually see them at some point, coming in, going out, coming to the lounge, swooping in for nibbles, and they might stop for a bit of a chat, but it would be really strange and completely change the dynamic if they sat with us and joined in.

For dinner parties it's usually made clear whether children will be around or not.

I cannot for a second think that my 15 yo would want to come with to one of my friend's houses for book club.

Not wanting to have kids around for an adult event doesn't mean you don't love your children, or enjoy their company or whatever, it just means you enjoy spending time with your own friends. I think that's healthy.

Hmm. I don't think it's appropriate all the time, but I do think it's quite nice they want to be around their mum, and feel comfortable with you to be around you.

My teenage DD doesn't want to be in company of many of my friends, except a few.
Her boyfriends family are more of a kids are scarce vibe, and I find that a little unsettling.

DDs boyfriend is much more nervous when it comes to being around adults.

I haven't posted about it before as it is a recent phenomena in our friendship circle. In a couple of years they will be off to uni and it will be different again, I guess.

Teen joining the conversation at their home, fine.

Teen joining when you are out for dinner, absolutely fucking not.

I think if it’s at their house then definitely YABU to expect their kids to disappear from a group setting. You don’t have any need or right to turn the conversation to mature topics in someone else’s home. It’s different if you and a friend want to step outside or in another room to talk about something private for a bit, but that’s on you to leave the main communal space.

For outings it’s fine to express preferences and at your house you can extend specific adults or family invites. My husband and I communicate pretty directly with our friends and that’s the established norm for the various groups when it comes to planning. If we want to have an adults-only evening we will say exactly that when making plans, and if we want to do a family gathering we say that. It’s the same as making plans with just my girlfriends vs inviting their partners as well.

“James and I could use a grownups’ night out. Are you and Tim free for dinner next Saturday night?” Or if an invite doesn’t specify… “oh I’ve been wanting to try that place too. Were you thinking kids or couples or just the girls?” If you start specifying in invites and asking directly in response to invites from these friends, that will establish this as something that gets agreed on during the planning stage.

I agree. Mine used to sit with us for dinner all the time from babyhood in high chair, it was no different if we had guests. We also had friends who came for meals and brought their children.

If you go out to a restaurant for a meal, that is different. You don't usually take your teenage children and teens generally want to do their own thing with their friends anyway.

I used to enjoy being part of dinner parties as a teen - at our house, or my dad’s friend’s houses.
We used to enjoy a chat and joke with the adults, often we’d sort the music out, help with food and drinks etc.

You are definitely not being unreasonable. I have 2 teenagers, boy and girl. They are welcome to eat with us but otherwise they want to go off and do their own thing however much they like our friends or know them well. I find it weird when teenagers like hanging out with their parents friends. It's being socially unaware and the parents should not be encouraging it.

I agree OP.
I like to see my friends DC but generally they head off after a while which means we can catch up on other topics.

We don't have a problem talking about lots of things in front of them (perimenopause usually helps see them on their way!) but we'd rather not discuss family/marriage/teen kid issues in front of the teens themselves.

That said I'd ask if your friend's daughter is ok if it's a new thing. There might be a reason for it.

Totally.
That reminds me of a bookclub experience (similar set up) where a 14 y o Daughter joined us to discuss the book (she did clear off after).
I love my kids but I do know that no one else thinks they are as amazing as I do.

We have friends who bring their son to everything. We never see them on their own. Problem is son is 28, works part time and will swop shifts so he can join them. If we meet up for a walk, he walks along with his mum talking about people I don’t know. We’ve started making excuses to not see them.

YABU. I absolutely appreciate adults need 1 on 1 times with their friends and other adults but I don't think you can expect that when you're visiting their home. It's their children's home too. Invite to them to yours or out elsewhere if you want to guarantee no kids

This. My siblings & I were always around during adults gatherings both as young children before bed & as teens. We loved the laughs & being included despite often being a target for teasing.😂 We would serve drinks and clear tables etc if the gathering was in our house.

Yes, although a year or 2 ago the 12/13/14 y o wouldn't have been there all evening. Possibly stopped for food, not stayed at the table all evening.
This seems to be a new stage. I am frankly surprised that 15/17 y o girls want to spend the whole evening with us.

I'm also surprised that teenagers would want to gang out with adults and get any pleasure out of it. My kids are friendly and sociable, but they'd rather do stuff in their own rooms when we have adult guests. I have to take them snacks as they don't even like coming down for that!

What a stupid take.

I guess by the same token, if the teen has friends round you don't expect them to turf out their parent?

I'm with you @axolotlfloof. I'd expect to know beforehand if children were included, yes sometimes it's fun to have everyone included but sometimes you just want to spend time with your friends talking about things that aren't appropriate for your or their children to hear.

And I'm sorry, no matter how much the children enjoy it doesn't mean they should always be included!

If it’s a noticeable change then it’s likely not an accident. Her parents may be concerned about her and trying to keep her around people for example. And it’s also possible that one (or both) of the parents isn’t wanting conversation to turn to the topics that come up between you when it’s adults only. I know we have a few friends in our wider circle who I enjoy in family settings but find they tend to launch into unpleasantly gossipy or prone to launch into too-personal/heavy/political topics in adults-only settings.