To want to educate my child in state but provide the straw that make it like a private education?

[palegazelle]

Is that even possible? I don't think I quite have the money to send all my children private, but I do have some money that I'd like to use for extras like tutoring, music lessons, sports extra
-curriculars and the opportunity to spend some time with them myself on things that others might use a tutor for.

So how do I give my children as close to the advantages of private school as possible without actually sending them to private?

What is the difference that makes the difference and which parts of it can I replicate in the state system? How?

This is a very accurate description of why I send my children to private school. The school they attend doesn’t have particularly flashy facilities and they are highly unlikely to make useful connections there.

But because the standard of behaviour is so high, there is virtually no disruption in lessons and they get through the core curriculum quickly. The children end up around a year ahead at the end of year 6 despite spending far more time on sport, music, art etc than would generally be allowed for in a state school.

There is a lot of individualisation. This is specifically built into the timetable- I.e there is 45 mins a day where children do either a subject they are struggling with or extension activities in something they excel at or something they have chosen in small groups. Plus a lot of individual attention in class.

No child is ignored / deprioritised just because they are doing ok. Because you’re the customer the school can’t take this approach. A lot of children move to the school around yr 3 because they weren’t really getting any attention in their state school.

This was also basically my experience of the difference between state and private too (I moved to private at 13). Around 50% of time at the state comp was spent on behavioural issues. It made the school a really unpleasant stressful place to be and meant that there was no trust between teachers and students e.g we had to go outside every break time because otherwise classrooms would get trashed. State schools with good behaviour often now seem to do this with draconian policies like detentions for the wrong socks, silent corridors etc. The private girls school I went to barely had behaviour policies at all - it just didn’t need them.

Now of course these factors don’t necessarily apply to all state schools or all private schools but it is going to be difficult for a state sector to achieve the same standards of behaviour and differentiation to the average private school.

Because state school children can’t be driven, or ambitious, or talented? Only the 7% from the wealthiest households in the country? 🤨

I would have to disagree in the quality of sports coaching 😂 but maybe on bad apple

I don't think it's about activities. We're not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination (my parents were manual workers - one generation on, we're middle middle-class), but my son is at a top-ish private school. He has loads of really lovely friends but lots of them are absolutely loaded and/or connected. As a result he has become very comfortable around extreme wealth and power as they're the lives he's been exposed to via his school mates. He's just not intimidated by that sort of thing which I think is the main difference - it provides a sort of confidence and unfazed-ness. I'm not sure it'll benefit him in any way as he doesn't plan on climbing any sort of greasy pole requiring connections. The other thing - him and most of his friends don't do any extra curricular activities - they just hang out.

The provision of languages depends on tge school. In my son's secondary it is 3 hours per week with the French native speaker.

I have not noticed that the private school graduates I know speak better foreign languages than state educated and meet all kinds of people through work. It is all down to number of hours per week.

@Neveragain35 hmm I didn't say that. YOU did!

Another poster has explained in a different way the effect of the peer group. You won't get it because I didn't for a long time either .....

Around 50% of time at the state comp was spent on behavioural issues.
Omg shat sort of school was that? Pnly with kids expelled from other schools? This is definitely not an expefience in most of state schools

It made the school a really unpleasant stressful place to be and meant that there was no trust between teachers and students e.g we had to go outside every break time because otherwise classrooms would get trashed.
??? 😮😯

State schools with good behaviour often now seem to do this with draconian policies like detentions for the wrong socks, silent corridors etc. The private girls school I went to barely had behaviour policies at all - it just didn’t need them.

So basically what you saying is that kids of not affluent people are trashing the classrooms and kids of rich people are behaving well. Children of poor pepole need to have draconian lead on their necks whereas children of rich people are nice and kind and don't require it

You made me 😂 laugh

1. small class sizes means more individual attention to children. You can only emulate this by home-schooling.
2. music and singing lessons are taught not just for the sake of it but for children to become good at them. at ds’ junior school all kids are supported to sing / play well enough if they can speak - even deaf kids get specialist sen help. This is something most would struggle to find let alone emulate.
3. all children are expected to play 3-4 sports and play them well enough to compete. even ok kids get tutoring on how to play better. Sports is on top of daily PE lessons which focus on more whole body movement. This is fairly easy to emulate from home.
4. French from primary. French was chosen because it’s grammar structure is complex and so allows children to learn other languages. The goal is fluent enough to visit france and communicate 100% in French by year 5. By year 8 children who move from primary are expected to use and reference french source materials in all other subjects. You can emulate this with an in-person french teacher.
5. Science is taught at a very high standard and children are performing titrations / making paracetamol etc by year 4 at his school. This is the trickiest and most expensive thing to emulate

@PeachSalad
I think the behavioural difference is probably partly due to private schools having more control over intake than state schools and being able to exclude any child who doesn't meet their expectations. And to an extent smaller class sizes making behaviour easier to manage. And then partly due to children at private schools (on average) having fewer issues at home which lead to behavioural difficulties in the first place. And obviously that's not to say that every child at state school or even every state school has issues with behaviour. But even if 10% do, it can be very disruptive.

I don't think this is particularly controversial. My own experience was a while ago and I was at a school which ended up being rated inadequate mostly for its behaviour management - someone set fire to a classroom which was why we were banned from them at lunchtimes. But the government and DfE has acknowledged there are significant issues with behaviour in the state sector. Ask any teacher or go on any thread here about teaching, including this one, and there will be discussion about managing disruptive behaviour. The media is constantly reporting on how behaviour has declined in schools. One solution being tried in the state sector is the bootcamp style Michaela - type schools (and I've no idea whether that is a good solution - I certainly wouldn't have wanted to go to one myself) but if you listen to Katharine Birbalsingh (headteacher of Michaela) talk she specifically says that the very strict policies at Michaela are required because the children are mostly from deprived backgrounds and often have a lot of issues at home and that if she was headteacher of a private girls' school she might not implement that same policies.

No @Circe7 , a lot of behavioural issues are handled differently at private schools- quietly trying not to upset any side of customers. If private were managing issues as state they would discourage parents.
Yes, the media have to write about something and state schools are not businesses that consider that client is always right so they have nothing to hide like private schools.
My experience with private education is that the whole university divisions are called with the names of superwealthy donors who give milions to the school- funding bursaries and scholarships...all because they want they son not only to get in but also graduate with honors 😂
Or my friend experience from a private school where not only the school but also the teacher was encouraged by remarkable gifts so the generous parents kid has a good time and great grades. Never mind he was a bully, he was wealthier than a victim. In front of the school drug dealers had a lucrative business. One of the most wealthy areas in UK. At school children of footballers, russian mafia, expats with schools paid by corporations, diplomats and army paid by gov.

And then partly due to children at private schools (on average) having fewer issues at home
Yes, surely poorer people are awfully behaving and rich people nicely. Yeah🤦🏼‍♀️. That is really 🤣

The "Private school provides connections" stuff on this thread is kind of overblown.

If we're talking Eton etc. then sure. If we're talking "St. Custards School for Girls, High Wycome," then no, you are not going to get any particular "connections" there.

If it's a decent education you want, buy a property in the catchment area of a good state school and do some tutoring in core subjects, there is no great mystery.

@CoffeeCantata I agree with you - if Labour use the income to sort this out and create more tailored supportive provision for disruptive students from challenging backgrounds then everyone would benefit. Clearly isn't working to promote inclusion above everything and expect the poor teachers to manage bored, traumatised disruptive kids whilst ensure they learn at the same time, and teach those who are willing to learn but struggling, and those who are doing ok in the middle but could do better AND provide stretch and challenge to those towards the top. Completely unrealistic expectations on staff which is also unfair on all the kids - streaming doesn't happen for all lessons (often looked down on because inclusion) and mixed ability teaching is so difficult for teachers no wonder they're leaving in droves/having mental breakdowns/ not joining in the first place.

Not all states/private schools are the same obviously but for many people this reflects their state option so private schools offer the calm supportive well rounded environment that all state schools should provide but sadly don't.

"If state schools were able to easily exclude anti-social families and highly disruptive children, the whole of education in this country would be transformed and teaching would be a popular profession again. The prioritising of the doctrine of inclusivity at all costs is damaging so many children (and teachers!). Other, more suitable provision, needs to be made for those children who cannot cope with school - as it probably once was!"

I don't think that's what they're saying.
Try growing up in a deprived town in the north east. At comp this was exactly what was assumed and how we were treated.

Outside in every single type of weather and only allowed in to use the loo.
Have you seen that toilets are often locked up when they can't be fully supervised? It was discovered that children were storing their vapes in the ceiling tiles off a bathroom so they didn't get caught with them at a local school, so the toilets were remodelled to try to prevent this, giving less privacy.

In contrast at private school we had full use of our form class. Our books were kept in our desk so we didn't have to carry around a full day's worth of folders and text books. We had some where to keep pe kit so we didn't have to carry that around all day too.

The big difference in private Vs state for me was that private was far more nurturing.

The drugs are selling best not in comprehensives in northeast. Nobody has money there. The drug dealers make most of money in front of private schools

The drug dealers make most of money in front of private schools.

Does no one in authority attempt to remove the drug dealers?

It’s unfair to make drugs a school issue they are rife in both you can’t buy your way out of that issue.

My kids get nurtured at home and is carrying books around really such a deal breaker?

Are you surprised?? Birds of a feather flock together. As someone else above has said- the children get used to being around wealthy, ultra confident people and have experiences most of their state schools peers don’t. It breeds this aloofness.

What is all this rubbish about "connections"? From my private school, I have a couple of doctors and the odd lawyer as a facebook friend and might send them an occasional message to ask how they are. I know just as many doctors and lawyers from state schools. The rest of my classmates are probably doing something in a bank somewhere, idk, I certainly don't know who their fathers are to be getting given jobs. How many school friends does the average person keep in touch with?

It seems to me that people think every private school is Eton or Harrow. Our school played a rugby match with Eton once and they put a photo where Harry's red hair could be spotted on the pitch. No-one made a "connection" to leverage.

If your child is bright, well-behaved and academically motivated, a top-set education in a good state school won't differ enormously from private school. The biggest difference will be class sizes, and closer teacher attention, which not all children need.

Private schools rarely involve musical instrument lessons or or extra sport as part of the regular offer, it's just that private school pupils are more likely to do these in addition to school.

Of course it is possible.
The best thing about having money, time,
resources is that you can give your child the rich experience of a state school education AND other opportunities.

Because those children have more money to buy drugs, because those schools will do ANYTHING but deal with the issue in an open, school wide manner ( the brand needs to be protected) and because, quite frankly, many of those parents have gone private to have as little to do with the day to day education of their kids. Long days, homework and activities all taking place at school =
less contact with the children.
Friend’s DD is out of the house on the school mini bus from 7am back at 7pm,
sometimes later… they have very little to do with activities or contact with the child - leaving them free to work long days to pay for the fees…

This has absolutely not been my experience of drug dealing in schools. Drug dealers are not that stupid to be loitering about in generally affluent areas targeting posh school kids! But people love to say that as they are wealthy they are all coked up!! Do you think the schools would be getting the results that they do if it was the case?

Drug dealers target vulnerable kids who are disengaged and with no adult looking out for them. Not the middle class kids fretting about which Russell Group uni to get into.

And actually most teen drug use now is synthetic cannabis/ spice in vapes. Something posh kids are repulsed by as they see vaping as common and wouldn't be seen dead doing it.

I think @PeachSalad may dislike private school children and their "superior" parents.

But from your posts, it is clear that you have no understanding of what actually goes on in the vast majority of private schools.

We would not have an insight in what is happening at that end and trust me the school would not advertise that it is happening. I am pretty sure they do but that is just my guess. What matter for the private school is their opinion. They cover all things like that