To want to educate my child in state but provide the straw that make it like a private education?

[palegazelle]

Is that even possible? I don't think I quite have the money to send all my children private, but I do have some money that I'd like to use for extras like tutoring, music lessons, sports extra
-curriculars and the opportunity to spend some time with them myself on things that others might use a tutor for.

So how do I give my children as close to the advantages of private school as possible without actually sending them to private?

What is the difference that makes the difference and which parts of it can I replicate in the state system? How?

It's not as simple as riding lessons, trips to the theatre and learning an instrument.

My DD is having a great education at a small private school right now. The main difference is the availability of resource compared to the number of pupils. Teaching staff, equipment, pastoral resources. It makes for a very different environment.

Also the kids have been selected - they have gone for a well rounded cohort but realistically you're not getting a place if you're the child who throws chairs at the teacher.

The staff often say they enjoy teaching there because they don't have to spend all their time policing behaviour. Of course the kids have their moments but it's very different to the stories my DD's friends tell. In her school the number of staff available allows them to deal with incidents much more robustly.

There's nothing you can do to emulate the private school day to day environment unfortunately. That's the main reason I sent her there. She does play an instrument as it happens and does out of school activities but it's the daytime environment that makes the difference.

I’ve taught in both (primary/prep) and have a daughter in state. For me the differences are;

Smaller classes, allowing for better differentiation/ support/ challenge. Almost no disruptive behaviour in class so lessons actually get taught, I don’t waste my time on crowd control.
Not tied to national curriculum/SATS. Frees up time to be spent on alternative subjects such as engineering. Also state schools aren’t really supposed to push kids out of their own year groups content even if highly capable. My daughter can read fluently (y1) yet is sent home with books with 6 words on a page (this is a well regarded school rated good by Ofsted last year!) This wouldn’t be happening at a private school.
Procision for music, drama, sport, languages is light years ahead of the average state. Some might do one or two of these well but unlikely all of them. Children have specialists teaching this from reception in private.
plus yes the array of extra curriculars available on site.

I used to be very anti private schools and didn’t see the benefit. Having worked in one, I wish my daughter could go to one but we can’t afford it.

It’s not nice but there is an element of truth in it. I don’t smoke, part of the reason for that is that in my friendship group at school and home no one smoked. Kids follow their friends that’s why „fell in with a bad crowd“ is a phrase. If, as a result of being from a deprived area the friends your child mixed with do things or are exposed to things you don’t want your child to be exposed to then it’s a worry. And I know affluent kids take drugs and have other problems.

Totally agree, I went to a private school, and have spent 20 years teaching in various state schools, for the past 7 an excellent grammar.

All the state schools I have taught in have been superb in their own ways, and education wise I'd have sent my children to any of them.

But none have felt at all like private school does, they even look different internally.

As pp says you can make up some of the difference by filling the extra time created by the shorter day with enrichments in the form of hobbies/sport/music and theatre/cinema plus lots of travel.

But it can't be replicated, which doesn't mean what you can achieve won't be a first class education.

DS has been state all the way through (albeit at a top grammar for secondary, where a good proportion of the demographic is as you would see in private) and I certainly feel he somewhat lacks the 'polish'/confidence that I've noticed in children from private schools. For example, it was a battle to teach him good manners (was taught to say 'pardon' at primary school, copied the table manners of his peers, picked up a glottal stop), to make eye contact when talking to people, to initiate and make small talk with adults (still a work in progress). These are all things that our friends' privately educated children seem to have as second nature, presumably due to a focus on these soft skills at school.

But confidence frequently tips over into arrogance, and I'm pleased that no one (outside of the family 😁) would ever accuse DS of being arrogant, he comes across as polite and endearingly shy.

As a family who could easily have afforded private, but didn't take that option, I don't feel his academics suffered at all (predicted four A stars at A level). It's likely his extra-curricular interests suffered (while we provided sports and music etc outside of school, he never excelled, and gave up easily). I don't really know how to comment on the 'connections' angle. I don't think the lack of them will hold him back in his chosen (STEM) field.

There's pros and cons. His extra curriculars were presumably with some children he wasn't at school with? so they'll have exposed him to a wider range of people and their experiences.
It will have given him a larger pool from which to make friendships too.

No it isn't!

My DS goes to a small independent school on a scholarship because I wanted him to free from the bullies. To be allowed to enjoy maths and physics without being called a snob or a nerd or a swot.

I wanted him to be safe, and even Ofsted said the only state school at which we were offered a place, wasn't safe. I couldn't give a toss about 'connections'.

You really have no clue, do you !!

Do you think all kids at state schools do nothing outside school?

Private schools might offer networking (a bit, depends on the school and your kid, some only offer other horsey friends).

On the other hand, state comps offer opportunities to develop the super skill of getting on with people from all walks of life, not just those from your own social class. Including the other sex - private schools often leave pupils unable to talk to other sex and only having mixed with opposite sex siblings and friends' siblings.

I can't pretend to know much about private school because I don't, but the one thing I've learned from state schools is that the most detrimental thing for my children is disruptive behaviour. It's been for a variety of reasons over the years, from teachers who are not very good at managing it (with my full empathy, they shouldn't have to) through to especially difficult cohorts. My approach has been trying to get my kids away from that, in one extreme I actually changed schools because the cohort was so challenging nothing would improve it (I was a governor at the school so was regularly briefed on this year group!!) best decision I made as we moved to a really small village school with small class sizes that was perfect for my son, but of a trek though, but worth it.

With my eldest we did some extra work to improve his scores which got him placed in a higher set where the behaviour was better, didn't need to resort to tutoring but would have done if needed.

Once they're placed in productive classrooms I find they meet their potential much more naturally.

I'm really confused about this focus on "connections". I have friends I've made throughout all stages of my life, not "connections".

There are a 163 Grammar schools in the whole of England ,it's hardly a realistic prospect for most people .

I can only speak for the private and state schools that my kids attend, but for me the main difference is attitude.

I have kids in secondary private and secondary state.

The private school expect you to strive and make things happen for yourself. No babysitting. You get yourself to sports matches/music lessons etc with no reminders from the school. You bring the right kit (and the school ask parents not to remind the kids/pack bags for them). Lots of homework that the kids manage/schedule for themselves. Regular exam weeks from Year 7 so the kids get used to revising and sitting exams. Slightly harsh consequences for forgetting things (eg wear lost property PE kit if you forget yours). You follow the rules about phones/boundaries/not walking on the grass because that's how it is and you're busy with so many other things that you don't think to question it!

At the state school (a not very good one, but it's trying), the kids are babysat through everything. Told what to bring when and reminded. Rewarded for just sticking to the rules. Very little homework and no consequences if it's not done. Seemingly few assessments. Forget your PE kit and you just sit the lesson out.

So in my experience, while tutors and extra curriculars would benefit the state child, it doesn't compensate for the attitude they're immersed in all day.

The result is that when my privately educated child gripes about some (minor, perfectly reasonable IMO) consequence, my state school child immediately jumps in with "they can't make you do that!". My state school child is amazed that there is no boundary fence on the private school (it opens out to fields and footpaths etc) and doesn't understand why the kids don't just leave (whilst the private school kids don't leave because it's expected that they stay!).

My state school child is amazed that there is no boundary fence on the private school (it opens out to fields and footpaths etc)

But the site is secure?!

The complete opposite is true IME, at my private school we were very mollycoddled and one word from the parents and a child would be moved classes/teachers/subjects etc. Spare kit always available, phone confiscated and parent phones up then it’s immediately returned.

My state school educated siblings were basically just left to get on with it and there was no special treatment or negotiation.

It just isn't possible.
It's a whole package you buy your child if you privately educated.
It's the behaviour expectations, the social skills, not being tied to the national curriculum, in prep and then sixth form it's the small classes with masses of attention.
Most private as well it's the ethos of the school.
Now obviously you can teach good manners at home, and encourage social skills etc but our children spend huge amounts of time in school and with peers and that influence is hard to counteract at home

You could donate part/all of what would have been private school fees to the state school. They would be able to do amazing things for all the kids with even a tiny bit of extra money.

You can offer cultural enrichment activities but you will not be able to replicate the relationships and connections that are the real benefit of private school.

I’d have thought it was quite common for secondary schools to have sites people
Can get into/out of quite easily? Every primary I’ve worked in has been like Fort Knox (though my friend works in one which has a public footpath running through it…) but are secondaries like this? Some private ones are split sites across a town…Eton and Marlborough college for example.

THIS in spades 👏

I am sometimes genuinely mystified by what some parents think goes on in state schools. Mine have had loads of opportunities- DofE, trips to watch Shakespeare plays, school performances, trips abroad, extra curricular sports and music, extra revision sessions before and after school. And this is a very bog standard state school that was RI at the last Ofsted.

In terms of the ‘confidence’ private schools give you- DD just did her GCSEs and came out with a string of 6s and 7s. She was delighted and has skipped off to the local college to do A Levels, brimming with confidence, she feels like one of the ‘clever ones’. I have friends with kids at private who are a bag of nerves and stressed to hell, feeling like a failure for getting 8s.

In terms of the excellent ‘teaching’ - I am a state secondary teacher, I know several teachers who quit state for private because they wanted ‘an easy life’. Not because they are amazing teachers. In fact a good friend of mine who moved to a local private school to take up a HoD role told me she had never seen such lazy teaching- because they are so-called compliant/easy students the teachers just rock up and turn to the next page in the text book.

So I wouldn’t want to emulate a private education tbh. Give me happy, well rounded kids with a much broader understanding of the world and their local community any day.

@Shakenandstirredup No, the site is not "secure". There are open gates and public footpaths that lead on to/off the grounds.

They take a sensible approach of wearing lanyards (if not in uniform) and staff challenging people that they don't recognise or have a lanyard.

The older years are allowed to leave the site at break and lunchtime; I'm not certain, but I don't think they have to sign in or out.

The kids stay in school because they want to / because they don't question the expectation that they will. It is also rural, so there's not many places to go unless you've arranged someone to collect you!

Private tutoring

@HappyAsASandboy I’m surprised, I just thought because of the climate these days schools in particular had to control who had access to the grounds. But maybe private schools don’t have to do that.

@Shakenandstirredup I don't think it is a legal requirement for secondaries to have closed sites. There's state school (in town) here that have split sites and the kids walk between them, and a state school (rural) where the school backs on to fields, and has open access to the site from the front drive.

You can’t! My kids to extra curricular activities like climbing, scouts, netball, football but none of that can give them a private experience in a state school.

It's the opposite in my kids' comprehensive. A bit of babysitting in year 7, a bit less in Year 8, but by year 10 it's a lunchtime detention if you forget your PE kit. Exams/assessments twice a term. I think these things vary a lot between schools, so it's hard to generalise between state and private when it comes down to the general culture.

A leafy comprehensive, a Northern Ireland grammar, a public school, a small independent day school, an independent school for pupils with behavioural problems, a comprehensive in a deprived area near a grammar school, an international school, an independent with an unusual educational philosophy, a super-strict academy, a performing arts school and a pupil referral unit can't easily be grouped into a "state-school" and "independent school" ethos.