AIBU in expecting my teen boys to have tidy rooms

[Newbutoldfather]

I have two teen boys, early and mid teens. I expect them to keep their rooms tidy. This is non-negotiable. They need to be perfectly tidy at least once a week, so the cleaner can clean them. They can take water to their bedrooms but all other drink and food has to be eaten downstairs.

They have become pretty good at it and only need the odd nudge now, Also bedrooms are not ‘private space’. Unless the door is closed, in which case I will knock, we all go in one another’s rooms.

They can express their creativity (although don’t seem that bothered) by putting up posters or painting the walls (well, not personally, without help).

I think all the above is good role modelling and prepares them well for adult life, where spills, damage and rotting food have real consequences in terms of damaging a house and financial cost.

The reason I ask is the amount of threads where teenage rooms are vile with spills, rotting food and, less importantly, old and smelly clothes thrown anywhere and everywhere. And so many posters say that you have to respect their ‘private’ space and that they are teens and can’t help it (often, ridiculously, due to ‘lack of brain development.)

I wanted to do an AIBU to see if I was in the silent majority or if most people do see teen’s rooms as theirs to neglect and damage should they so wish.

OP had a cleaner to clean his children’s rooms.

But everyone on here has said they expect a tidy room and sometimes it's ok to not always be tidy and that they all expect their teen to tidy their mess and deal with any subsequent consequences arising from the mess.

However OP has implied we are all doing it wrong by allowing our teens to close their bedroom doors and by not forcing them to tidy up. He even said we are raising mysoginistic boys by allowing this happen (the irony of him making his teen boys tidy a room and him keeping a tidy house so that he can pay a woman to clean it isn't lost on me either)

What people are disagreeing with is how he is insistent that his way is the correct way, no ifs or buts, that classroom rules have to be applied at home, that shutting doors and allowing teens autonomy is wrong and that brain development is irrelevant.

Op has certainly touched some nerves here. Totally bizarre, his posts are fairly inoffensive and completely sensible imo.

Imo I think some people just don't like the fact that:
a) He's a man
b) He has kids with nice tidy rooms
c) He can afford a cleaner

I mean, how dare he.

Interesting to read though, you'd swear he'd posted about his kitten-stomping fetish 😂

I'm with you. We're trying to prepare for a similar level with our two primary age children. MIL and FIL raised their three boys to be involved in household chores from very young and though all three can be irritating in their own ways, neither I nor their partners have had to domesticate them! DH and I are keen to raise our children to be functional adults, and taking care of the home environment is part of that.
Also, you want to pay your cleaner to clean, not to tidy up first.

For me it was the way he had to come on and tell everyone that his way was the right way and anyone that has done it differently, he has lectured them on how they are wrong.

As I previously said, he thinks getting a teen to tidy is brand new, he's cracked it and no one else has.

I found it amusing though that he is so proud they can tidy up but then he pays a woman to actually clean and goes on holiday and so proud of the tidying he does so that a different woman can come in and clean for him

He comes across as one of those men that expecting praise and fawning for doing something that women are expected to do and for doing things that anyone should be doing in order to live in a smooth running household.

If a woman started a post about this, she would have her arse handed to her, why are we supposed to fawn over this man doing and teaching his kids the bare minimum? All they do is tidy, he hasnt taught them to clean, only taught them it doesn't matter because you can pay a woman to clean.

Am I the only one getting a tad suspicious of the motives behind this thread?

I do remember a thread by a man, almost exactly like this a while ago.

I don't think monetary sanctions or incentives are necessarily the way to go. I am increasingly a believer that household chores are massively important in theory and read the study from Harvard that this results in happier, more successful adults. It's harder in practice and I fail regularly. It's more being ground down than laziness, that and picking battles. My teen boys have tidy rooms but I could just have easily got messy ones and I wouldn't pick that battle over the overall war. I think we are all just doing what we can to raise happy, independent, thoughtful and decent children.... and it's really hard!!

@Hoppingblackbird and @Werweisswohin ,

I am really curious as to what you think my hidden motivation is?

And OMG:

‘I do remember a thread by a man, almost exactly like this a while ago.’

It is the Black Hand ‘Thread About Teen Bedroom’ Hand Gang. It’s a fair cop, you’ve caught us red handed.

@YellowphantGrey ,

You are a walking cliche of assuming sexist stereotypes.

Men can’t parent and all cleaners are women!

You've done nothing to dispel those cliches

Proud your boys have tidied for a woman to clean.

I'm now waiting for you to say your cleaners are men just so you can be right.

@YellowphantGrey ,

You are both an obvious misandrist (which is a perfectly valid word) and simultaneously sexist in assuming my cleaner is a woman. I guess you wouldn’t consider employing a male cleaner.

Neither my marriage (or lack of it) or the sex of my cleaner are germane to this thread, and certainly none of your business.

(It was funny, a couple of years ago I had a different screen name, not obviously male, but same posting style, nothing else different. Not once accused of dominating a thread or mansplaining, Confirmation bias is a wonderful thing 😉).

You're just a run of the mill man that expects adoration for what is basic parenting and basic expectations of living in a family home. You've shown some pretty mysoginistic reactions so why do you think that would make you appealing in anyway? The fact that I'd replied to two of your posts for you to them reply that I must be obsessed with you was pretty fucking creepy to be honest.

If I needed a cleaner, I'd employ one who could do the job well enough, regardless of their sex. Fortunately me and the other males in my house all know how to clean as well as tidy so that's what we all do.

You've come on and dismissed everyone on here in a patronising and belittling way and then when people, myself included, have replied, you've then started with insults.

Maybe get the thread moved to Dadsnet section if it's an echochamber you're after but please don't pretend that starting a thread about how to raise tidy teens wasn't done with the intention of using it as a chance to insult women.

I think piles of clothes are fine but not dirty plates or cups. I would let them have juice or squash though.

What actually was the motive behind your post, other than to assume some sort of superiority?
I'm struggling to see anything useful or helpful.
Your poor boys are people, not objects for you to control.

You've nailed it @YellowphantGrey with this paragraph:

'Maybe get the thread moved to Dadsnet section if it's an echochamber you're after but please don't pretend that starting a thread about how to raise tidy teens wasn't done with the intention of using it as a chance to insult women.'

Your teens don’t have a private space? That is unreasonable, we all need privacy sometimes.

@Werweisswohin ,

‘What actually was the motive behind your post, other than to assume some sort of superiority? ‘

You see, this is such a bizarre question. Firstly it has already been asked and answered by me. But, to reiterate, I read a lot of threads on here about teens’ rooms bring smelly stinky pits and parents who just leave them like that, and it surprised me, because I am completely different, and so are all my friends.

So, I was curious how others lived. I think that is quite normal really. And, aside from the naked assumptions, attacks on my children and man-hating, I have gained some interesting perspectives.

‘I'm struggling to see anything useful or helpful.’

That is how social media works. You can easily ignore and move on if it is of no interest to you.

‘Your poor boys are people, not objects for you to control.’

Stupid and inflammatory statement. They are lucky both in terms of wealth and being loved by both parents. They have friends, hobbies, holidays and sports they enjoy. I have taught some ‘poor’ children, in every sense of the word. You should reserve your compassion for them, although I doubt that statement came from a place of compassion.

What was were you hoping your specific postwas going to add to this diverse and long standing discussion though? So far it seems to be your chance to exhibit what you think is superiority. What you've actually shown us is how to be a controlling and bullying parent who gives their children no privacy. None of us aspire to that. Again, your poor children, they deserve better.
I have met folk like you before, I know what you think you're doing, alas many of us can see it and speak up. Get your kicks elsewhere.

@Werweisswohin ,

Well, it is my thread!

So, ignoring the goading, why did you reply? What did you think your post, other than being a fun way to personally attack someone, added?

Some people get their online kicks from attacking others I guess.

Your reply is very ironic, considering your approach throughout.
I hope your poor boys are getting more rounded male examples elsewhere.

You sound ridiculously controlling. Hopefully they get a more balanced approach across the rest of their parenting.

Well I have one poster who is accusing me for wanting to take credit for what everyone does and another who finds me ridiculously controlling. It can hardly be both!

And I am really amused by how expecting 5-10 minutes tidying constitutes being ridiculously controlling.

I don’t know what you would think of some of the genuine ‘tiger’ parents whom I have met.

Your overall approach is controlling, not simply asking for a bit of tidying to be done.
Each comment reveals more of concern tbh.