AIBU in expecting my teen boys to have tidy rooms

[Newbutoldfather]

I have two teen boys, early and mid teens. I expect them to keep their rooms tidy. This is non-negotiable. They need to be perfectly tidy at least once a week, so the cleaner can clean them. They can take water to their bedrooms but all other drink and food has to be eaten downstairs.

They have become pretty good at it and only need the odd nudge now, Also bedrooms are not ‘private space’. Unless the door is closed, in which case I will knock, we all go in one another’s rooms.

They can express their creativity (although don’t seem that bothered) by putting up posters or painting the walls (well, not personally, without help).

I think all the above is good role modelling and prepares them well for adult life, where spills, damage and rotting food have real consequences in terms of damaging a house and financial cost.

The reason I ask is the amount of threads where teenage rooms are vile with spills, rotting food and, less importantly, old and smelly clothes thrown anywhere and everywhere. And so many posters say that you have to respect their ‘private’ space and that they are teens and can’t help it (often, ridiculously, due to ‘lack of brain development.)

I wanted to do an AIBU to see if I was in the silent majority or if most people do see teen’s rooms as theirs to neglect and damage should they so wish.

It kind of sounds like you bring school rules home

My children do keep their room reasonable. The older ones are allowed to eat in their room if they don't bring their plate down then next time they are not allowed to eat in their room. It works pretty quick to be honest.

The people on here saying a teen shouldn't need to keep their room clean because they are lazy slobs are probably the same people on last nights posts saying a 13 or 15 year old shouldn't need a parent to cook their meal as they are old enough to be independent. I spy more MN double standards.

@Dreameeeerrr To be clear- I expected my teens to contribute to the family community- to cook, do their washing, keep shared spaces clean and tidy. I just think they should be able to have their own rooms the way they want them. So long as they kept the rest of the house the way I wanted it.

My teen and pre-teen’s rooms are not what I would call organised and tidy, but I do have minimum expectations and I enforce consequences if not adhered to. I won’t wash clothes left on the floor. I only wash what is in the laundry basket. I announce when I am about to do the wash and if they don’t scurry to it and pick clothes up, it won’t be washed. It is no hardship to open a lid of a basket and put clothes inside rather than on the floor. If socks are left round the house and there are no clean socks to wear, that’s the sock owner’s problem. They need to put their socks in the washing basket.
I also insist on a clear floor the day that the cleaner comes, so she can hoover. I also instil how disrespectful it is to leave the room in a state, when the cleaner is being paid to clean, not tidy. Her workplace should be left in a state so that she can do her job properly.

Oh and they should definitely have privacy! My bedroom had a lock on as a teen so I wasn’t walked in on doing anything private.

Both DS and DD are very untidy (DD is worse so I don't think the sex is relevant). They don't have food in their rooms and spend very little time in them. I don't have to go I there so I let them live how they like. I have a floordrobe myself so I can't really complain.

Generally some kids are easy others are not. This can also vary as they age- kids can go from lovely to horrid in a short space of time. My kids were hugely untidy in their teens. We tried a variety of tactics- strict tidying. Leaving them to get on with it until they got sick of the state of their rooms (they did not) and none of it really worked. They are more tidy now (though not vastly so) and both have well paid jobs and are well adjusted people. So in the greater scheme of things it is what it is.

I haven't been in my boys rooms since they were about 12/13 without an invite. The cleaner has never done their rooms. They both went through a revolting mess (imo) stage but the 23yr old is pristine now, nothing ever out of place and always spotless, the now 25yr old is more haphazard and cleans his room every few weeks.

When they were teens their mess was not (and still isn't) allowed to encroach on the rest of the house and all communal spaces are expected to be clean/tidy and stuff put away after themselves.

I think its fine to insist on having tidy bedrooms. I think its very controlling to dictate that only water can be consumed in bedrooms, rather than having rules about returning plates to the dishwasher. I don't think it probably does much to encourage independence.

But they are private spaces, and everyone is entitled to some privacy.

@Wizzywheels ,

‘It kind of sounds like you bring school rules home’

I don’t bring the rules home but I do bring the principles home. You do learn a lot about how to manage behaviour when you learn to teach and the majority of the teachers I talk to about it say teaching has benefited their parenting.

It isn’t hard to see the correlation between motivating teens in the classroom and in the home. And I treat room tidying the same as supervising any practical activity (I taught Science). I don’t just tell them to do it, I show them how and explain why it matters.

Don't care if IABU, I expect basic hygiene and baseline tidiness and am still disappointed and stop buying his favourite food when I don't get it 🤷

I don’t get the privacy thing.

A closed door means a desire for privacy and I would always knock before entering (and, obviously, wait for a response which, I would have thought, went without saying!).

But, it is a family home, not a lodging house. If any door is open, anyone can enter. That goes for my room too. And, if they are out, all the doors are open and the house gets good air circulation.

Why are people happy to give teens room privacy but not phone privacy? (FWIW, I have never looked at their phones, but I reserve the right to and they know that).

It is totally contradictory to say you can expect but not demand. If there is zero consequence for something not happening, you can’t really expect it to happen.

In my first year of teaching, after a particular bad lesson with a chaotic practical, my mentor (who was very good) told me a story of a really bad lesson they observed where the kids were out of control and nothing got learned. They asked the teacher what went well and they said they had high expectations if the pupils. She had to explain to the teacher that high expectations meant consequences if they weren’t meant, not just hoping for it to go better next time.

I do think it is the same for parenting. Consequences don’t have to be severe (I normally deduct less than £1 from their generous allowance when they forget to tidy) but they need to be enough to care about and enforced consistently.

My disabled son, 13, has had sessions with a neuro child psychologist who has some fascinating insights into the teenage brain. She explained about how childrens’ brains, until puberty, act like sponges, absorbing everything creating neural pathways, constantly developing. But then as they mature they start to refine & sift out lots of unnecessary stuff they just don’t need & this process is hard work for the brain. For a child having to navigate life with a physical disability this is harder still, so they don’t need to be overwhelmed by parents demanding they tidy their room constantly. They will get there in the end! Just thought I’d share that (PS just to add my son’s disability does not prevent him picking up stuff & being tidy, he’s just generally a shambles)

When my children were that age they were responsible for their rooms. If they were happy living in a tip where they couldn't find anything that was on them. I think that was much better than demanding they keep their room s tidy and withholding money if they didn't. They learned to take responsibility for their own actions and make their own decisions.
They are both in their thirties now both fairly tidy and very responsible.

This post by @Octavia64 is spot on.

I suspect most of us have thought it with our newborns or toddlers "He's such a good eater because I've never made a fuss about food and he's expected to eat what is put in front of him" until dc2 comes along and is completely the opposite. Insert sleep, behaviour, language development, confidence or whatever you like in there.

The thing is, most of us have realised long before the child becomes a teen, that there is a huge element of luck in getting the child you have, and aren't so smug as to start a thread implying that a teen going through a pretty standard phase of having a messy room is because we haven't parented to your high standards.

It is a discussion board.

It is unnecessarily confrontational to moan about a thread. If you think I am smug, just don’t bother to post.

These 2 sentences seem a bit contradictory @Newbutoldfather .

Do you think this is a discussion board, or do you think that only people who think you are wonderful should be allowed to post ?

There is a huge scale between "neglect and damage" and "perfectly tidy and not considered to be a private space" though and yes I think you are too far to one side of it.

Completely reasonable for a room to be clean to avoid hygiene issues and to be clear enough for the cleaner to stick the hoover over and wipe surfaces down but the rest is excessive and yes sounds a bit joyless and authoritative tbh. The fact you have to specify that they are "allowed" to have posters up as if its some sort of generous reward for a well behaving employee rather than a bog standard expectation for a teen room says it all....and I bet you have control over what posters they choose as well....can't imagine you want your precious guests catching sight of a sexy glamour model or poster with...gasp, shock, explicit wording as they walk past the enforced open celldoors

Were you or their Dad in the military?
You sound very controlling.

If their door is open that's not private. If it's closed that's private. Why would anyone think anything other?

@Moier ,

‘Were you or their Dad in the military?
You sound very controlling.’

I just find this really bizarre. Being a parent is, by definition, controlling, unless you actually believe that teens should have no rules at all nor consequences (unfortunately, there are a few of those I have met and it isn’t pretty).

Would you think a teacher controlling if they expected children to raise their hands or complete their homework? They just aren’t adults yet and need support to learn good habits.

I just don’t believe that there is any joy in a messy room. I think rooms are messy (or worse) because teens just haven’t got into the habit of keeping them tidy. I think everyone is happier walking into a tidy room and knowing where all their favourite things are. And, as I said upthread, if you tidy regularly, it is a matter of a few minutes work.

If your bedroom door is always open and anyone can walk in then you have to keep everything you don't want to be on public display hidden away at all times.

If your bedroom is considered to be somewhere that anyone can come in unless you close the door, then you have to keep things hidden away very well (or kept outside the house) as you can't be sure that your things are kept private.

If your child knows you never go in their room without their permission then they have actual privacy for themselves and their belongings.

For what it's worth, I've never understood the phone privacy anyway, but maybe I just had tech savvy teens who would have had the nous to delete anything they didn't want me to see (a bit like hiding away belongings really). I don't think insisting things have to be open makes them more open. I think it just makes people better at hiding things.

I think everyone is happier walking into a tidy room and knowing where all their favourite things are.

Shall we do a straw poll as to how many adults quite like living in messy (not dirty) rooms?

You're imposing your view on your teens. Having rules like this makes sense with small children. When your children are teenagers you can impose rules with points "If you leave food around it will go mouldy and we may get maggots" but not rules that you just think are a good idea "I think people are happier in tidy rooms, so you must keep your happy". Even better is to impose guidelines with choices "you can keep your room tidy so the cleaner can get in, or you can clean it yourself".

I just don’t believe that there is any joy in a messy room. I think rooms are messy (or worse) because teens just haven’t got into the habit of keeping them tidy. I think everyone is happier walking into a tidy room and knowing where all their favourite things are.

This just shows your complete lack of empathy, or understanding that people are different, and not everyone wants to live in a showroom.

Too me your whole room regime feels a bit controlled.

A room is like giving the teen the chance to experiment with their own bit of house.

They can keep it like a filthy pit - and learn there are consequences to that.

Or they can keep it nice. And learn there are consequences of that too.

I suspect the best way of getting a teen to keep the room tidy is just wait until they get a boyfriend, girlfriend and at that point they will be too embarrassed to have a room that is a despicable pit. Probably.

Are people on here actually saying that if their bedroom door was wide open their kids aren't allowed to walk in without permission each time? And they are calling the OP controlling? Wow. My kids are welcome anywhere in their home, if the door is closed they knock, if their door is closed we knock.