To ask ds to go out more

[treadingcarefree]

Ds 24 is always in and always observing me. If I'm on the phone he'll stand around listening and laughing, commenting on my conversation.

Ds9 has autism and it's been the summer holidays and he can be very hard to manage when he has a meltdown and ds will stand and watch and observe, if he's in the kitchen for example and I'm trying to manage ds he'll pop his head out to watch and observe.
I constantly feel analysed as he stands watching what's going on.
Ds work compressed hours so is home 4 days a week under my feet watching what I do. It's like having a helicopter constantly hovering in the room.
I have asked him if he can go out occasionally instead of spending 4 solid days at home, he's here every evening too but he just says I've got no plans or nowhere to go.
He's driving me nuts being around, I'd like some privacy.
Ds9 is back to school today and I could really do with some time to myself after the 6 weeks holiday to unwind but he's sitting beside me as usual and I don't feel I can even make a phone call to chat with a friend.
It feels so suffocating.

This. You say you're NOT scared of him, OP, but every one of your updates strongly suggests you are

Have you considered regularly bonking DH on the couch?

I imagine his willingness to interrupt date night/remain living at home might change pretty rapidly 😅

Sounds like you have two choices he eighter stays in his room, goes out or moves out. Explain what is behaviour doing to your relationship

Does he have any household chores? Does he do his own cleaning and laundry?

Doesn't sound like it.

As soon as I read your post I was like 'he's neurodiverse.' You say he isn't, but what makes you so sure?
His behaviour isn't neurotypical. So therefore he is either ND or in need of some serious therapy and help. But my money is on the former!

This, very unusual, horrid for you

He'd probably provide a running commentary with feedback!

I have a 21yo with autism who is like this. Drives me absolutely crazy. I feel like I have zero privacy or down time in my own home. Makes me want to scream sometimes. On top of this he complains when I got out.

He’s more than capable, goes to uni (in our home city) but that’s while I’m working and just for 3 days a week otherwise he’s just always there.

I work from home a lot (no option to go to office more) and he just sits in the hall outside my office room listening to my work calls and then wants to comment whenever I leave my office room. He’s like a mix of a shadow and a lingering fart!

I don’t have an answer or suggestion for you, just sympathy in a similar situation 😫

This is absolutely bonkers. Why should the OP be the one to lock herself in her room or have hobbies to take herself out the house. If she wants privacy then she has absolutely every right to ask him to get out.

It's not for me to say whether he is neurodivergent or not but plenty people who do manage to cope well living on their own.

I never understand when grown children are told "it's their home too". No it's not. I have a very good guess that the parents are the one that have bought and paid for the house and they have every right to have privacy in their own home, when and where they want it.

It's incredibly unhealthy to be infantilising grown up adults. The whole set up sounds unsustainable for everyone, a grown up child who is old enough to move out shouldn't be dictating how everyone lives and have everyone pander to his needs and wants. There should no fear from the parents of having a conversation for him to move out.

Reminds me a lot of my children’s dad. Obviously I wanted to spend time with him when we were a couple but whenever I didn’t (chasing an ADHD dx for myself and sometimes just needed 10 mins to stop my brain from feeling like it was going to blow from overstimulation), he would follow me around like a particularly needy toddler with the ‘why why why’s’ all added in. It was suffocating amongst many other behaviours. Still does it now, if there’s circumstances where he comes over to my house he’ll follow me into every room like on an invisible rope!

No one in his family thought he was autistic. But our eldest child is his twin and was diagnosed last year. And the traits his family didn’t recognise as autism? All normalised because they are all evidently undiagnosed as well, of course it was all typical to them. I’d bet the last £1 in my account that your son wasn’t diagnosed because he was high masking/low needs. Anxiety is usually what they usually mis diagnose autistic girls but it can happen to boys as well.

I understand your post but you are evidently posting from a position of seeing the OP’s son as a grown man who should respect that his time of being a child in the family home is over, that it’s his parents personal space that he should be respectful/mindful of. And if he is NT I’d fully agree. If the son is autistic (diagnosed or not), it’s really not as simple as the ‘tough shit’ approach you’ve put here - though the post you’ve quoted is so far in the other direction of acceptable as well.

Autism is a disability of social development. The op isn’t infantilising her son, he genuinely doesn’t understand the change of dynamics now he’s an adult (if he is autistic, which again I’d say is highly likely given all the information). Simply expecting the son to ‘grow up and get a grip’ isn’t going to work.

DS 24 sounds 100% Autistic. It's highly likely based on the fact his brother is let alone the very ND behaviour you're describing.

The fact you're concerned he will react very strongly to any boundaries also points to ND. I know I'm generalising; I have seen that reactions can be strong and you can feel held to ransom with some high functioning Autistic personality types.

I'd lose my shit over this. I would very firmly say what you don't like and then arrange a time to discuss a way forward. It's very dangerous for a head strong young man to sense his mum's scared to stand up to him. I tell my own ND child often - please don't eat wig, get involved in my adult conversations etc, I don't like it and it crosses a boundary. I also express a very human need for space and privacy!

You need to tell him without fear! If he hates you over that then he was always going to find a reason to blame you for something

That sounds tough. Would he consider halls? If not can you afford a garden office shed to work in.

My adult ds lives at home.

He does his own thing and has done since he was a teenager

This is unusual behaviour

I would tell him to go away

Can you create another space for him so you have your living room to yourself

So, not meeting the criteria for a diagnosis isn’t a definite no. My daughter is autistic. It took 6 years. Her first assessment didn’t meet the criteria due to a lot of masking. She was referred back into the service for something else and the first thing to be questioned was why didn’t she have an ASD diagnosis. Explained the situation. This next person helped me loads. Had her observed in different situations and not in school where she followed the rules and was a model child. They observed in my home which was very telling. I managed to build up a lot more evidence by keeping a diary. I also noted many other things I since recalled about her earlier life that are red flags but weren’t at the time. My FB is full of little comments and pictures showing quirky unusual behaviour that was cute at the time but now makes loads more sense with an autism diagnosis. So just because your son didn’t meet criteria whenever you had him assessed then it doesn’t mean he’s not ND. Whilst It’s characteristically girls who mask and don’t behaviour in an obviously stereotypical way as far as autism is concerned there are many boys who also got this criteria. Look up Asperger’s syndrome in boys. Whilst this diagnosis is not used anymore, the characteristics now fall under a more general autism diagnosis. They are very opposite to the old ‘classic’ autism traits required for diagnosis.

Your son sounds like my teen who is much younger but who should be more independent for her age than she is. We are working on this. You almost need to start weaning your son off you and being in your company. Small steps at a time. Maybe start by looking at phone calls. When you want to make one say to him ‘I need to make a call/speak to so and so and I’ll be doing this on my own room privately’. Then go to your room and close the door. If he follows just repeat yourself. Ask him to respect your privacy.

He should get a tv in his room, not the other way around. It's OP's house!

Kick him out. Give him one month to find somewhere and rent it.

I would just tell him straight - you’re having trouble being perceived. My ND family know I can’t be perceived when I’m cooking and they stay out of my way. Be open with each other about your quirks, it’s good for bonding 😄

It's odd that an NT 24 year old would spend so much time hanging around his mum, especially in such a bizarre way. Most young people of that age are out with their friends, going to the gym, playing football or whatever else they do.

Unfortunately he wouldn’t cope in halls from either a social or eating point of view (he had ARFID), so wouldn’t manage well right now, but independent living is something we are actively working forwards with 25 being the aspirational target. Whether we will make it, by then I’m not sure.

the house is big enough for me to have a home office, that is not multifunctional, so garden office is not necessary, anyways, he’d still be there appearing like a ninja whenever I popped out of the office, even if it was in the garden 🤣

we obviously love him and all of his quirks and wouldn’t want to force anything that would not be in his best interests longer term, but it does get frustrating sometimes.

My daughter got diagnosed as autistic & ADD at age 34. I was amazed but understood after she explained it to me.
your elder son may have a very different kind of autism to your younger son. It might help the pair of you to investigate.

This is so sad. I can’t imagine feeling this much resentment for your own child. Why don’t you go out to work or socialise or exercise to have some time to yourself?

Can you not just shoo him away when he's standing around listening to your phone calls ? I do that when my kids are hanging about.