To ask ds to go out more

[treadingcarefree]

Ds 24 is always in and always observing me. If I'm on the phone he'll stand around listening and laughing, commenting on my conversation.

Ds9 has autism and it's been the summer holidays and he can be very hard to manage when he has a meltdown and ds will stand and watch and observe, if he's in the kitchen for example and I'm trying to manage ds he'll pop his head out to watch and observe.
I constantly feel analysed as he stands watching what's going on.
Ds work compressed hours so is home 4 days a week under my feet watching what I do. It's like having a helicopter constantly hovering in the room.
I have asked him if he can go out occasionally instead of spending 4 solid days at home, he's here every evening too but he just says I've got no plans or nowhere to go.
He's driving me nuts being around, I'd like some privacy.
Ds9 is back to school today and I could really do with some time to myself after the 6 weeks holiday to unwind but he's sitting beside me as usual and I don't feel I can even make a phone call to chat with a friend.
It feels so suffocating.

I get that you feel you can't be honest with him. So I'd suggest every time he listen on you pause your call and say "DS was just going to ask you, can you empty the bins/ sort the laundry/ insert other chore here"

Make it so that the consequences of being around are that you get chores to do. My nephew was similar (also no diagnosis but I think on the spectrum) and this worked quite well.

There's no getting away from it, his behaviour is odd

So is you putting up with it

Has he always been like this?

Seems to me you're letting him rule your household

Agree with others, not normal behaviour at all. I have young adult DC and we all like giving each other space! And mine are def neurodiverse!

I like this idea. ‘Oh while you’re here, bring out that recycling please!’ ‘Since I’ve seen you can you handle the dishes in the kitchen please, they need done.’

Can he go out and do the food shop? Other errands? Put him to work!

Tell him to move out!

I have kids that age who are NT and they behaved like that at primary but definitely not by secondary age. By year 7 they wanted privacy and weren’t interested in the details of my conversations with other adults. Your son’s behaviour is very odd - I wouldn’t be surprised if he was ND too.

What would happen if you went to your room and closed the door ?

Ok, I change my mind. Your son is a manipulative creep and you are being held hostage in your own house by his behaviour and his "high standards". He has no respect for you or your husband and can't take hints or respond with respect to a polite request to give both of you some space.

Well it's his house too but I would say his social skills are poor.

Can you go to a different room if you want some space?

It's reasonable if you're on the phone to move away and if he follows to say 'can you give me some space I'm on the phone'

When your dealing with your dc I'd say 'can you not watch please'

But no it's unreasonable to expect him to go out.?

This is like a mirror-image of the other thread in AIBU with a 23 year old OP who thinks she should spend 'family time' with her DPs and hang out with them every night and on her 3 days off work.

Then again, he is 24 and needs to learn how to behave. It’s not acceptable to listen and comment when a person is on a private phonecall. If his standards are that high, then OP should live up to it.

Maybe arrange a call for when DH is there and when he starts up DH can say Ok DS, lets both get out of the room, it’s not nice to listen to other people’s phonecalls you know that.

But, OP should just tell him sternly to leave the room in my opinion. She sounds scared of him.

Are you sure he's neurotypical? That doesn't sound like normal NT behaviour to me

This. Compressed hours etc is a red herring. What you describe is not normal behaviour for a 24yo man.

Yeah. It is.

So the son sounds creepy, but that’s understandable given the OPs very strange posts

• doesn’t want a 24yr old to move out
• believes it will adversely affect her relationship with the 24yr old if he moves out
• Seems to think it’s normal that the 24 yr old has high parenting standards for her, even though he’s at an age he doesn’t need parented at all

OP, your son has become enmeshed with you, there are no boundaries and you do not have a healthy relationship.

For his sake, he needs to move out and away from this clearly toxic home environment whereby you haven’t allowed him independence and now he has developed unsettling behaviours

My kids as teens would have quickly scarpered if asked to leave so that their parents could have date night because they wouldn’t want to witness any PDA never mind think about the possibility that the parents may want to have sex. At primary school age they would have had FOMO and imagined us eating lots of chocolate or something special like a party but once secondary age they knew that date night meant kissing and more which was something that they didn’t want to see or listen to.

This reads like a nightmare to me. I would HATE this. You are far too nice (scared?). I would have snapped ages ago. He’s well over 18 you are not required to “parent” him anymore.

OP, do you ever have 'normal' conversations with your DS, only I get the impression that you find it hard to communicate with him, if you can't even tell him to stop listening, or hovering around you while you want some piece and quiet? You say that 'he has very high standards when it comes to parenting and often remarks on how terrible other parents are and how he would never visit if they were his'. This seems really weird and judgemental to me for a lad of 24. Do you encourage him to bring friends home? Does he make friends easily? Has he ever had a girlfriend? Does your DH ever take him down the pub, or do other hobbies with him, as this might be a way of getting him interested in activities outside the home? Does he actually have any hobbies of his own? Has he ever been on holiday with friends, or even talked about it? As others have said, you need to have a conversation with him about where he sees his life going, ie, do you see yourself staying in your current job for a long time, are you saving a deposit for a home of your own, do you need any help or advice with planning it, that sort of thing. I just get the vibe that communication seems difficult with him, and this needs to be changed if you hope to have a long term relationship with him.

I think you need accept that he might not be NT. He sounds exactly like my nephew. He is attached to his mother, will just stand and watch people without ever thinking of helping out, he always knows best even though he has very little life experience and he doesn't get social norms at all.

Regardless of him being diagnosed or not, you can't spend your life living under the thumb of an adult child. You need to set firm boundaries that allowes you to live a normal life and you need to be able to model a normal healthy family life to your younger son. He has to move out, he has to have some independence. It might damage your relationship momentarily but he is way too attached to you to ignore you for the rest of your life.

I think you should discuss with your DS about him working towards the aim of moving out, which is not quite the same as asking him to move out, iyswim. Explain that it’s a natural and very important step in the process of a child becoming a fully independent adult and while he has done great with the getting a job part, if he doesn’t take this next logical step, you will feel like you haven’t done your full job as parents (failure to launch is a real thing). You will be so proud when he does actually take this next step and you know you have done a good job as parents, that kind of thing.

Then you and he can look at practical steps towards this aim, which is for everyone’s benefit. I hope this shift in perspective/reasoning might help as it’s not as stark as “we want you gone”. Good luck!

This really doesn't sound normal. He isn't joining in the conversation, is he, because as you say he is only hearing half of it and is presumably then talking at you over whoever you are trying to have a conversation with. Do you ever say something about it? DS, I'm chatting to Sarah, could I have some space please? Or, and you shouldn't have to in your own home, what would happen if you moved away from him to another room, would he follow?
It sounds like a really rapid lesson in boundaries is needed. Most 24 year olds aren't hanging around while mum is on the phone, would rather stick pins in their eyes than keep crashing their parents date night. Maybe he's ND, maybe he's just an asshole, maybe he's both but it sounds like you need a more proactive approach now. What might just be tolerable at 24 could be completely unbearable at 34 in the blink of an eye.

This doesn't sound like normal adult behaviour.

I get you're worried that asking him to leave will damage your relationship. But your relationship is being damaged now!

And really you're doing him no favours by allowing this behaviour to continue unchecked.

Would he be able to cope in a house share? Does he have good friendships or a social life? Does he have hobbies or interests that involve interacting with others or being outside the home? If the answer is no, you need to parent him by taking action to help him prepare for a happy and self-sufficient life outside his childhood home.

That doesn't mean asking him to move out next month, but it does mean spending the next few months tackling his behaviour, helping him build a life outside the home, and getting him to a place where he can move out.

It doesn't sound like he's in a hurry to move out, so it's up to you to help him make this step into proper adulthood. When are you planning to tackle this? When he's 30? 35? How much will he have missed out on by then?

Why have you given him so much power within the family unit?

This sounds exceptionally unhealthy.

Speaking as someone who is neurodivergent, you and BOTH your children sound neurodivergent.

Possibly the parents too?

Edit; sorry I see now that you wrote you too, as in OP.

So what do I do then tell him to move out and probably never see him again
Is this what you think would genuinely happen? If so then you and your son's relationship needs working on. If not, then he's done a number on you to make you believe that.
Either way, his behaviour isn't acceptable, and to be blunt he needs to get out more and get some friends/interests. Yes I know it's his home too, but people should know by secondary school age when someone wants space to themselves for a phone call or to spend time with e.g. a partner, and be willing and able to go off and entertain themselves for a bit.

Is there perhaps a bit of an odd dynamic because of the big age gap between your two sons? I’m wondering if the comments about parenting are the result of the older one trying to emphasise that he is one of the adults, not one of the children. In which case, really, he needs to move out, and then that wouldn’t be a question. Unless you and your husband are happy to let him act like the head of the household and tiptoe around hoping for his approval.