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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask ds to go out more

207 replies

treadingcarefree · 02/09/2024 11:45

Ds 24 is always in and always observing me. If I'm on the phone he'll stand around listening and laughing, commenting on my conversation.

Ds9 has autism and it's been the summer holidays and he can be very hard to manage when he has a meltdown and ds will stand and watch and observe, if he's in the kitchen for example and I'm trying to manage ds he'll pop his head out to watch and observe.
I constantly feel analysed as he stands watching what's going on.
Ds work compressed hours so is home 4 days a week under my feet watching what I do. It's like having a helicopter constantly hovering in the room.
I have asked him if he can go out occasionally instead of spending 4 solid days at home, he's here every evening too but he just says I've got no plans or nowhere to go.
He's driving me nuts being around, I'd like some privacy.
Ds9 is back to school today and I could really do with some time to myself after the 6 weeks holiday to unwind but he's sitting beside me as usual and I don't feel I can even make a phone call to chat with a friend.
It feels so suffocating.

OP posts:
5128gap · 02/09/2024 13:12

So has he just started this behaviour of late? Or has he always been like it? Because unless it's recent, surely you're either used to it, or its been a problem before now. Regardless if you don't want him to leave, you need to get the behaviour to stop. Telling him to go out from what you've agreed is his home isn't the answer. He can't be out all the time so has to change his behaviour when he's in. Id be asking him if he was OK as I'd noticed he was hovering around lately. If he said he was fine, then I'd go on to tell him that I didn't like him listening into my calls and overlooking what I was doing and could he stop. Then I'd be mentioning it every time he did it and asking him (politely) to stop staring/move away.

MimiSunshine · 02/09/2024 13:12

If you ask him to makes to move out, why would you never see him again?

it’s perfect fly normal for someone in their mid twenties to do so.

if he’s suggested that unless you let him
live with you forever he’ll never speak to you again then he is abusive.

you need to sit him down and explain some of his behaviour is unacceptable and can’t continue

Nn9011 · 02/09/2024 13:19

I know you've said he's NT compared to your other son but it doesn't sound like it. Autism can be "high functioning", for example I am able to work but it doesn't mean I don't have Autism. His lack of understanding social cues and strong sense of justice on behalf of children would suggest there is more to it. At 24, it's not 'typical' (hate the word normal) to not be out with friends etc on days off.
Autism is also genetic so whilst it wouldn't automatically mean he has it, he would much more likely compared to the rest of the population.

ChristmasJumpers · 02/09/2024 13:22

I don't know if you could ask him to leave the room if you make/take a phone call, as it's his house too of course, but maybe you could say something like, "this is a private call so I'll be in my room", or "I'll take this in the kitchen so you can carry on watching TV" or whatever. If he follows you then be direct - "I'm on the phone, do you need help with something?" i.e. go away and stop following me.

If he's coming to watch you deal with DS9, tell him he can either help you or leave you to it, it's not a spectator sport!!

FoxtrotOscarKindaDay · 02/09/2024 13:23

treadingcarefree · 02/09/2024 12:33

So what do I do then tell him to move out and probably never see him again or just tolerate it for a future relationship with him.
He has very high standards when it comes to parenting and often remarks on how terrible other parents are and how he would never visit if they were his so I try to do my best and I have, it's just got too much now.
His dad asked him to go out one night so we could have very rare and needed date night, and he reluctantly agreed but then came down saying he'd go out and just sat there before saying his plans had fallen through so dh said could he go upstairs then as he cooked a lovely meal and we had some wine but ds was up and down like a yo-yo so we couldn't relax and then a few days later he said he had thought it was a bit unfair to be asked to go out when he had nowhere to go then spent the next month making sarcastic comments like don't worry I'm only getting a drink I'll be out the way soon, so we never asked again.

Show quote history

Tell him he needs to find his own place to live, he works full time, he's passive agressive about you wanting privacy in your own home. He's 24 not 16. Time to move out.

He doesn't have children, how dare he pass any judgment on your parenting.
He's very disrespectful. Do you want your other son growing up to be like this too?

Original poster
treadingcarefree · 02/09/2024 13:24

FranceIsWhereItsAt · 02/09/2024 13:01

OP, do you ever have 'normal' conversations with your DS, only I get the impression that you find it hard to communicate with him, if you can't even tell him to stop listening, or hovering around you while you want some piece and quiet? You say that 'he has very high standards when it comes to parenting and often remarks on how terrible other parents are and how he would never visit if they were his'. This seems really weird and judgemental to me for a lad of 24. Do you encourage him to bring friends home? Does he make friends easily? Has he ever had a girlfriend? Does your DH ever take him down the pub, or do other hobbies with him, as this might be a way of getting him interested in activities outside the home? Does he actually have any hobbies of his own? Has he ever been on holiday with friends, or even talked about it? As others have said, you need to have a conversation with him about where he sees his life going, ie, do you see yourself staying in your current job for a long time, are you saving a deposit for a home of your own, do you need any help or advice with planning it, that sort of thing. I just get the vibe that communication seems difficult with him, and this needs to be changed if you hope to have a long term relationship with him.

I do have conversations with him but they often end up with him taking offence or denying any wrongdoing.
I have also had conversations about his future plans but he's very cagey and likes to keep his business to himself.
My ultimate goal is for him to move out now as it just feels time but I know he won't see any justification in that and will probably just say well where am I going to go.

OP posts:
RoachFish · 02/09/2024 13:26

@treadingcarefree it's ironic that he can be cagey and not share his business with you but he won't allow you any privacy. You are being completely controlled by him.

LewishamMumNow · 02/09/2024 13:26

What's he earning? Is he saving for something? Why can't he move out? Ultimately though, just tell him you a) want him out the house between X and Y hours; b) don't want him in the same room as you when you are working/chilling/whatever; c) he must not intentionally overhear phone conversations.

betterangels · 02/09/2024 13:29

You're controlled and trapped by your adult child. You and your husband need to deal with this together.

BitOutOfPractice · 02/09/2024 13:30

DP sometimes hovers over me. I think it’s because he likes to help. But I find it mighty annoying and say “I don’t need supervising thanks. Go away.”

Not sure that’s helpful, just offering some empathy.

Starlight1979 · 02/09/2024 13:31

BodyLamp · 02/09/2024 13:06

Why have you given him so much power within the family unit?

This sounds exceptionally unhealthy.

This. OP @treadingcarefree you sound almost scared to confront your own son?!

If I ever tried to be nosy and listen into a telephone conversation my mum was having (which let's face it, all kids try at one time or another) she would either tell me to go to my room / into another room, or she would walk into another room and shut the door!

Also,

He has very high standards when it comes to parenting and often remarks on how terrible other parents are and how he would never visit if they were his so I try to do my best and I have, it's just got too much now.

WTF?!?! You're trying to "do your best" to fit in with your sons "high standards" of parenting?! When he's not actually a parent himself?! And is actually a grown man still living with his mum and dad?!

Yeah that's weird. It's like he's in charge of the household....

FloatyBoaty · 02/09/2024 13:33

What an incredibly curious relationship you have with your son? It sounds both oddly enmeshed, and really distant at the same time?

why are you so scared of alienating him, OP? or scared of him full stop, perhaps?

why do you care what a childless 24 year old thinks of your parenting of your 9 year old?

Have you thought about therapy? For yourself I mean, to work out how to manage your relationship with your DS and move it to a healthier place?

Catza · 02/09/2024 13:34

Nn9011 · 02/09/2024 13:19

I know you've said he's NT compared to your other son but it doesn't sound like it. Autism can be "high functioning", for example I am able to work but it doesn't mean I don't have Autism. His lack of understanding social cues and strong sense of justice on behalf of children would suggest there is more to it. At 24, it's not 'typical' (hate the word normal) to not be out with friends etc on days off.
Autism is also genetic so whilst it wouldn't automatically mean he has it, he would much more likely compared to the rest of the population.

Being told to go away and let parents have a private date night is not a social cue, though, it's a direct request. Do you have issues understanding direct requests? Because, as an autistic woman this has never been a problem for me. I may struggle with undertones and hints but the beauty of autism is that I am very comfortable with direct communications and don't think they mean more than what they say.
My autistic cousin has a ridiculous habit of standing behind people's backs when they sit down which everyone in the family find unsettling. We ask him to move to the front and sit down. He has never spent months being sarcastic about it. Yes, we have to ask him every time. No, he never makes it any more dramatic than it needs to be.
I am aware that autism presents differently for different people, still, I believe you can be autistic and be a manipulative creep at the same time. Diagnosis is not an excuse for this behaviour.

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 02/09/2024 13:34

Are you charging him rent and board? At market rate?

If not, I'd suggest you crack on with having that conversation unless he can provide evidence that he is saving significant sums with the aim of buying/moving out.

Either way, he's a grown adult and if you can't have a direct conversation about his behaviour and he accepts it and mends his ways, then you have a bigger problem.

Re the phone thing. Stare him out. Stop talking, ask him what he needs, tell him to shut the door on his way out.

Does he babysit for you so you can go out? If he's part of the family, is he properly pulling his weight?

EatingHealthy · 02/09/2024 13:34

Where are you taking the phone calls? It is quite antisocial of you to take them in common areas unless there's a good reason e.g. your other half is sleeping in your bedroom.

Asking someone to go out so you can have a date night is also odd behaviour. Normally if you a date night YOU go out, you don't temporarily kick someone out of their home. Where was your other ds when you were having your date night?

You need to decide if you want him to still live there or not, if you don't that's fine - ask him to leave, if you do, you need to accept it it's his home too and go to your own room if you want privacy to make a phone call / have a conversation with your other half / just have some time to yourself, just as he presumably has to go to his room when he wants privacy.

That said, it's fine to ask him to leave the room to allow you to manage your other ds better, but treat him as the adult he is and communicate. It's possible he's just trying to see if there's anything he can do to help. Have a conversation beforehand and tell him it's easier to manage him on your own - or tell him what he could do to help and then if he still hangs around when your younger ds is having a meltdown tell him you've got it and ask him to leave/ remind him of whatever action is helpful.

Bumblebeestiltskin · 02/09/2024 13:35

OP, you sound scared of him. My DD is only little, so I don't have experience of adult children, but I'm pretty sure other posters who DO have adult children will say that this isn't normal.

Choochoo21 · 02/09/2024 13:35

CucumberBagel · 02/09/2024 13:07

Speaking as someone who is neurodivergent, you and BOTH your children sound neurodivergent.

Edited

That was my first thought too.

I also wonder if older DS isn’t the biological son of the DH, which OP may find difficult navigating too.

Undisclosedlocation · 02/09/2024 13:36

If I'm on the phone he'll stand around listening and laughing, commenting on my conversation

If as you say there are no special needs to consider, tell him not to be so bloody rude when he does this, walk out of the room and shut the door behind you! You don’t have to passively put up with this level of intrusion

Starlight1979 · 02/09/2024 13:37

Bumblebeestiltskin · 02/09/2024 13:35

OP, you sound scared of him. My DD is only little, so I don't have experience of adult children, but I'm pretty sure other posters who DO have adult children will say that this isn't normal.

Yep sorry but got to agree. Why are you tiptoeing around your son, allowing him to call all the shots, telling you about his "high standards" for parenting, listening in on your phone calls, walking in and out of the room when you and your husband are trying to have a date night...

Seriously. If I had tried any of that on as a child (never mind an adult!) my parents would have told me to bugger off.

Why is your child running your household @treadingcarefree ?

LuckySantangelo35 · 02/09/2024 13:38

Choochoo21 · 02/09/2024 13:35

That was my first thought too.

I also wonder if older DS isn’t the biological son of the DH, which OP may find difficult navigating too.

Show quote history

@Choochoo21

why do you think OP sounds neurodivergent?

Machiavellian · 02/09/2024 13:38

Autism runs in the family. He's clearly not NT and his behaviour is deeply disturbing to read about. You need to sort yourself out and kick him out.

Machiavellian · 02/09/2024 13:39

LuckySantangelo35 · 02/09/2024 13:38

@Choochoo21

why do you think OP sounds neurodivergent?

Show quote history

Appears oblivious/naive about her child's behaviour.

RoachFish · 02/09/2024 13:39

@LuckySantangelo35 I suspect it's because she can't tell how absolutely non-typical his behaviour is.

RickyRoadddx · 02/09/2024 13:39

It’s the least of your problems but if I was making a phone call and didn’t want someone else to listen in, I would do it away from prying ears.

Does he know the people you’re on the phone to? If it’s a private conversation with your friends he’s totally out of order. If you’re speaking to his grandmother, it’s a bit more understandable that he’d involve himself.

Hoppingblackbird · 02/09/2024 13:40

I mean, it’s odd to call a night at home a date night. But when our children were younger my DH would just say Ok, watching a film with your mum now, snacks in the kitchen if you want some, bye bye!