To ask ds to go out more

[treadingcarefree]

Ds 24 is always in and always observing me. If I'm on the phone he'll stand around listening and laughing, commenting on my conversation.

Ds9 has autism and it's been the summer holidays and he can be very hard to manage when he has a meltdown and ds will stand and watch and observe, if he's in the kitchen for example and I'm trying to manage ds he'll pop his head out to watch and observe.
I constantly feel analysed as he stands watching what's going on.
Ds work compressed hours so is home 4 days a week under my feet watching what I do. It's like having a helicopter constantly hovering in the room.
I have asked him if he can go out occasionally instead of spending 4 solid days at home, he's here every evening too but he just says I've got no plans or nowhere to go.
He's driving me nuts being around, I'd like some privacy.
Ds9 is back to school today and I could really do with some time to myself after the 6 weeks holiday to unwind but he's sitting beside me as usual and I don't feel I can even make a phone call to chat with a friend.
It feels so suffocating.

I have had to spell out to my children (one diagnosed autistic, the other could possibly be ND in a different way) that I am having adult time and that I need adult conversation with adults. They did not instinctively understand that.

It does sound like there is more undiagnosed autism in OP's family and direct conversations need to be had.

It's healthy to have conversations about what future intentions are and how to work towards them (even if reality pans out differently)

Did he go to university? Did he move away from home then? You say he had a girlfriend. Could he do some online dating? What about his old school mates? Surely they don’t all still live at home.

I would definitely talk about his future plans with him. Why does he act like it’s odd to move out eg when he says, Where would I go?

I don’t think you should shy away from these conversations. Lots of families would say, When you move out…. in natural conversation as if it’s an expected and normal thing to do. I do it with my dc in their late teens. They are not likely to go to uni but I do say they will
be expected to move out and live independently in a shared house like I did.

Why are people adamant he's got autism...

Fuckin ridiculous how people just throw that word around now.

Autism or not (op says not) he still needs to move towards living independently. It sounds like it has never occurred to him.

This sounds like a perfect solution

@SoTired12 people aren't just throwing it around, plenty of people have related his behaviour to their own experience with autism. He has an autistic sibling, shows an odd way of communication and social behaviour - autism is hereditary but often missed as some children cope well - until they don't. So combined those two factors make it likely - it's not being pulled out of thin air.

100% with you on the "high functioning" thing. I have spent my whole life masking (F 37) and my parents were in total disbelief when I was diagnosed as autistic. Masking is so incredibly exhausting too.

OP Can you talk to him in a way that doesn't attribute any shame? If he has becoming defensive before when asked about plans, can you and DH approach it from a "I believe living independently will help you build important life skills and achieve your long-term goals" point instead of "you are annoying me it's time to go" stance?

I am a single parent to an autistic 17 yr old. We are very close but for years have openly discussed if they stay living at home past 19 then there will be an "agreement" in place for rent etc. navigating these challenges is not easy and doesn't happen overnight. My 17 yr old is at college and works but is also expected to walk the dog/wash clothes/clean the house/cook/be respectful of my space/keep the house quiet when I work from home... the list goes on. There are boundaries and if they cross the line then they know the relationship and respect we have for each other will be tested, which neither of us want.

Just on him not having many friends/not going out much asking him to go out when you want some space is going to be tricky. Someone else said get him to do things around the house if he is loitering - do this! If my eldest is ever at a loose end I ask them to do a chore - clean the car! That always gives me some space for a couple of hours.

Re' him working, does he pay rent? Does he have a saving goal and if so what is it? My 17 year old is saving to have a gap year and go travelling and costs toward Uni. If he is living at home then I'd be expecting to have open discussions about money. He isn't going to learn much about budgeting/life management if he is living at home rent free and having everything done for him. I doubt most adult kids would move out in this scenario.

You haven't mentioned your DH much, does he feel the same? Does he have boundaries with your DS? Does your DH back you up? You both need to be in the same court on this so your eldest DS is clear.

Don’t ask him to go out more. Tell him to move out. High time at his age in full time employment. Cut the apron strings.

It's important to make a distinction between people who can mask (at whatever costs to themselves) and who can attain some level of independence and function in society; versus people who can't function independently in society at all, people who can't choose to mask their autism and its effects at all, and who are almost totally dependent on other people to act as carers.

That difference needs a name. High and low functioning expresses that difference. They are not absolute, they are relative terms and as autism is a spectrum condition there are people who function very highly in some ways and extremely poorly in others - but the difference still needs to be named somehow.

The OP's oldest son is at least high enough functioning to hold down a job (and even without special adjustments) at work. Not everyone is. Being "high functioning" does not mean a person doesn't have autism, and it certainly doesn't mean autism has no negative effect on their life, or that it requires no adjustments or support in other areas.

I will continue to use those words until someone comes up with better ones.

• edited to clarify.

OP has only described a tiny bit of his behaviour, certainly not enough to give a diagnosis.

I've been diagnosed with autism and so has my Son so I have got some basic knowledge of it.

The word "autism" gets thrown around a lot on here...any unusual behaviour is met with "sounds like autism"...it really is ridiculous, as if NT people aren't capable of 'strange behaviour'.

As for myself I do believe I am probably autistic but I don't have a diagnosis, perhaps why I find ds so overwhelming as I do need time to just recharge

I think anyone would find your adult DS overwhelming, OP.

They already have: low/moderate/high support needs. Or low/moderate/high masking.

This Op! ⬆️ @treadingcarefree

i must admit I thought that poster @Choochoo21 was joking with this as well

OK then, I'll keep that in mind. Looks to me as if the OP hasn't noticed that her DS's attitude is a disfunctional form of masking and that his support needs are higher than she thinks. Though his needs don't include being given way to all the time. That's also disfunctional.

you dont want to ask hhim to leave incase he doesnt talk to you?

what if he never wants to go

Looks like you have made a rod for your own back OP.
You have raised a manchild and future cocklodger.

Could be Autistic with PDA profile. Would explain the need to control.

He may be ND. No one on this thread can possibly know for certain, but some of his traits do seem to align with neurodivergence. However, if he's NT he sounds absolutely insufferable. I can't understand how you've managed to put up with him for so long.

He isn't a moody teen. He's a sarcastic, intrusive 24-year-old man who evidently hasn't matured enough to understand that his presence is not always welcome. Do you at least get a break from him when you go to work? Otherwise it must be so suffocating to feel unable even to have a private conversation. He needs to know that he is surplus to requirements.

I would encourage him to move out ASAP. It sounds like it would be good for him to stand on his own two feet for once.

I think evenings are the worst, after dh gets home and we put ds9 to bed we just want to sit and relax and spend some time together but he's just there all the time so we can't even have a conversation without his input.

Sounds like he is too comfortable. If he won't take the hint id be trying to make life more uncomfortable at home. Have your own friends over do lots of Hoover g and decluttering or honestly have a frank conversation with him and give him a deadline to move out. Saying this as kindly as possible but don't you want him to have a life. I'm sure you do. My ex moved from his mothers to mine and then back to his mother when we broke up 15 years ago. His mother just died. She had 2 of her sons living with her. My ex who is 60 and his brother who's about 45. Sad really imo.

I think evenings are the worst, after dh gets home and we put ds9 to bed we just want to sit and relax and spend some time together but he's just there all the time so we can't even have a conversation without his input.

Yes you can.

"John, we just want to sit and relax and spend some time together and a conversation without your input. Please give us some space in the living room for the next two hours. Do not come and disturb us unless a meteor lands in the garden. Bye now."

Then when he comes in (which he inevitably will) you say you're having the living room to yourselves Every Evening until he manages to keep out for two entire hours and you will be practicing for as long as it takes him to get it.

So tell him to stop it! Seriously, OP, are you and your husband scared of him? I really don’t understand what’s going on, here.

I think a lot of posters just haven’t experienced this, and so assume it’s about you being soft or scared of him.

My brother is like this, and he almost certainly is autistic. He’s also living with us at the moment and maybe a bit controversially ‘knowing’ it is autism doesn’t make it any easier to live with. He sits and stares and makes stupid remarks … answers questions clearly meant for someone else.

The problem is of course that people with autism often don’t get hints and I get that, but you make comments all but the thickest skins would pick up on and then yes you can get horribly blunt but it inevitably ruins the ‘nice’ atmosphere (or makes a bad one worse) and spoils things anyway. So it ends up being a lose-lose situation for everyone.

Family meeting needed asap and some ground rules and a deadline to move out. Honestly OP you're not doing him any favors letting him sit in with you and dh every night. He needs to be turfed out of the nest. Life is way too comfy for him. Come on you need to make it uncomfortable for him and he will thank you in future . It's no life for a young chap in his 20s to be hanging out with mum and dad. Sounds like he thinks he's still 9 🤣