To consider reporting him

[cantbelieveimaskingthis2]

I have a much younger brother who is now in his late 20s. He had a very difficult childhood as our parents have a lot of problems (disability, mental illness and some substance abuse), and whilst they love/d us, they often couldn’t care well for us. After I left home my bro was quite neglected, physically and emotionally.

I love him to bits, he was a gorgeous child. But I fear has not grown into a very nice adult.

The dilemma is this. He went to uni but having graduated with an ok degree, he has never had a job, ever. He doesn’t want to work in an office (fair enough) and has had various ideas but never settled on anything. However he rents a decent flat (i think a housing benefit scam maybe), always has plenty of disposable income. He travels extensively. He doesn’t live extravagantly but he has nice clothes, and travels well, ie: eats out for 3 meals a day for 6 months of the year when he is abroad.

It’s become apparent to me recently what is staring my family in the face which is there is no way he is coming by this money legally. My parents believe him when he says he’s just very frugal with his benefits money. But I know what things cost and there’s no way people on the dole can afford to be living it up in Thailand for months at a time? When I’ve asked him he’s given various excuses or deflections about investing in crypto but a few questions show he knows nothing about crypto so its obviously not true.

Our family are poor working class, there are no secret inheritances or anything.

So. I have concluded he’s probably up to no good but I can’t be sure. He‘s a gentle giant and i couldn’t imagine him harming anyone but he is a big bloke. He could if he wanted to. And with the amount of money and travel, it feels like he’s not small-time dabbling either. I have this feeling he’s doing something bad-bad. Something that could get him in real trouble. Or hurt. Or others hurt. But I have no evidence.

WIBU to report him to the police to try and force him out of whatever mess he is in?

I know for sure he will not listen even if I beg him to stop whatever it is I think he’s up to. After all he’s living his best life I guess.

Ok I’ll engage with this as though it’s a genuine comment though from your tone it sounds like you just want to have a pop at me.

I can ask him directly. But at this stage I’m certain I know the truth. So suppose he tells me the truth? I imagine he would if confronted. But then what? Ask him nicely to stop?

as for dealing with things as a family, not sure which family you’re referring to! I’ve explained parents with addiction problems and disabilities. They absolutely do not want to engage with reality and prefer to pretend it’s all fine and totally normal. There is no extended family, grandparents dead etc. No one who could help me with an intervention.

I would talk to them. You can't really think that reporting him to the police if he is smuggling drugs is the answer for your brother? Morraly for other victims of smuggling, maybe. But do you really think your brother getting caught with a large amount of drugs would save him? Those drugs confiscated by the police will be someones, they will belong to someone very dangerous and your brother losing them will put him in a lot of debt and potentially lead to his murder.
How do you know the trip was 10k? If has CCJs he has form for getting in debt so could be in debt again. He will probably be claiming ESA or PIP aswell as UC. You reporting him for being out of the country a lot will probably lead to his benefits being stopped. At which point crime would be his only means of an income.

No very much not jealous. I’m happy with my life and i’d love his for him if i wasn’t worried that people are getting killed (ie: through the drugs trade) so that he can fund the lifestyle.

I can only keep saying this.

I'm reading your posts OP and the sense I get is that you don't actually want to help your brother; but you're dressing it up like that. You want to grass him up for 'pretty bad crimes' that you have zero evidence of. Are you jealous of his lifestyle? That what this really is? Surely the first thing you would do if you are genuinely concerned is speak to your brother directly.

All fair points.

i know the cost of the trip as i can do some basic maths on what the costs of flights is, accomodation per night etc. I travel a lot myself.

Also he often gives my dad big chunks of cash, many thousands (paper money cash) to wire to him in different places because he ‘doesn’t trust bank accounts’ 🤨

I think you are really really jealous of your brother! You have no evidence at all of any (serious) wrongdoing, yet you want to report him to the police? For his own good?

Yeah right!

None of your business.

Green eyed monster

Could he be on the high level of disability benefits for mental health? Due to trauma or other MH conditions? If so, he could be on a fair whack of money, especially if he doesn't have many other outgoings. 6 month trips abroad to SE Asia - can be done cheap as chips, you could live like a king out there really quite cheaply. £500 a month would be plenty for accommodation for the month and 3 meals out a day.

What would you do if it was your family member? As someone else posted a blind idiot could see he’s up to no good. Sure i don’t have proof-proof like a drugs-r-us ad with his face on but i am pretty sure legitimate people aren’t walking round with 2k in notes in their pockets because they ‘don’t trust banks’

I have said about a zillion times i am not jealous. I love him. I would be happy for him were it not for my concerns for his safety and my worries that people may be coming to harm along the way which I have a genuine moral dilemma about.

I have been very successful professionally so I have plenty of money of my own, that no one’s been harmed for.

Hm i don’t think so. I know he’s never engaged with MH services as he doesn’t agree with labels.

Would he necessarily tell you if he had? There are still high levels of shame for some people having mental health issues. I've not told my brother that I have a therapist, I know it's silly but I'm embarrassed.

I mean your brother won't engage with banks as he "doesn't trust them", random out of character bursts of anger/violence. A strong family history of mental health issues etc....do you think there's a possibility that he could have a diagnosis of something?

As a general point on this thread it’s quite interesting. I’ve come on as I have a genuine moral conundrum - that i’ve sort of felt maybe i should be morally obligated if I suspected wrongdoing to report it.

Very much the mood music is no, just leave it. I tend to follow group consensus which is why I asked the question, because I want others’ input.

BUT one more question. Because I wonder is this the case for ANY scenario with a family member, we should never report to the police?

what if i suspected he was abusing his girlfriend?

what if i suspected he was a murderer?

what if i suspected he was a bank robber?

It seems to me that because I suspect he’s involved in drugs that maybe sways people as it’s seen as a victimless crime? But if i’m right (spoiler alert: i’m certain i’m right), loads of people will be being harmed as a result of his actions. I guess I’m just surprised.

Either way, I’ll follow the group view. I’ll tell him what I suspect. I imagine he’ll admit it (i know him and when cornered i think he’ll fess up). I’ll ask him to change his ways. He won’t, but at least i’ll feel i’ve done what i can.

well mistrust of psychiatrists, being very critical of me getting a diagnosis for one child etc is pretty strong with him

If your brother is doing what you say he is then you reporting him will have zero impact on victims of drug crime. There are too many drugs and dealers out there so any drug user will easily find the next hit. Drugs are also rife in prison so he could continue it if he was in prison. So no, I wouldn't report a family member for drug dealing.
If a family member was abusing an individual I would take steps to intervene myself first and get the person to safety. If that didn't work then I would possibly report because the victim of that abuse would benefit from the report. I say possibly because if it's an adult being abused I would involve them in the decision to report. If it was a child I would report without hesitation.

He is on benefits? Means tested? He has money to travel for 6 months staying in airbnb and hotels? I'm sure the gov benefits office would like to know this, doubt police would be interested.

What an ugly thing to consider doing.

I still don't understand how you know what benefits he claims, know when and where he travels, how much it costs etc but how he has so much money has never come up in conversation. Very odd. How do you know he doesn't have a job? Have you ever asked or have you just assumed? If you do in fact "know" he is a drug dealing with a history of violence, why do you still spend time with him?

@cantbelieveimaskingthis2

I think you’re getting a really shitty time here. I think one of your posts where you express concern about what could happen if he got caught smuggling drugs abroad shows you care. I don’t think you’re coming across jealous at all!

The police are absolutely concerned about drug trade. It ruins lives and causes them so many other crimes- violence, disorder, theft, grooming, prostitution, etc.

Given UC pays about £400 a month for a single person and that’s to cover all bills (except rent, usually will get a housing allowance element for or towards that) you are right to be concerned about where this amount of money is coming from. He definitely hasn’t come into via inheritance etc?

If you’ve exhausted all efforts of trying to stop your brother, I would share your concerns with the police. It might be money laundering/benefit fraud which they’ll be able to look into. Perhaps tip them off with the dates of next planned trip/return date. It would be far safer to face a penalty in the UK than a county with possible death penalty.

But whyyyyyy do you say that if i genuinely am concerned he’s doing crime which is hurting people?

i get the comments that say no there’s no point it won’t help anything.

but i don’t understand the comments which say reporting a family member you suspect for crimes is morally wrong? I genuinely want to understand your point.

I’ve posted loads but the long and short of it is, this is more than a hunch, i’m completely sure

You've got no evidence so just tell him to be careful with whatever he's up to and get on with your life

I accept that you’re concerned for your brother. I seem to recall that the police used to circulate posters with pictures of flashy cars and jewellery and ask for people to report if their neighbours/friends were apparently living beyond their means. On that basis, you could ring Crimestoppers anonymously. The police may already have some intelligence and it all adds up.
Alternatively, report to the benefits agency

Why can't you just ask him where his money comes from? You apparently know which benefits he gets, so discussions of finances clearly aren't off the table.

I know for a fact he’s never had a job because he’s my brother! Do you not know what your immediate family members do for a living?

sorry it’s all probably a bit of a drip, but i have explained on the thread that when i’ve asked over the years how he can afford travel etc he’s had various reasons including crypto, ‘investments’, and honestly i have preferred not to dig. But when i have asked basic follow up questions it’s clear he’s lying and then he ends the conversation. I don’t like to upset him because he had a rotten childhood and i tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. But this has been going on nearly a decade and I feel after the last time i saw him where it was totally clear to me and everyone we were with that he is up to his neck in some dodgy dealings i can’t ignore the facts any more. Up until a month or so ago i was telling myself ‘well i’m sure it’s not totally legit what he’s been up to but he’d never hurt anyone’. Now i‘m mot so sure. And having reflected, i can deduct logically that over a long period working in crime, he probably has harmed people. As a result i’m not going to be around him any more as i can’t have my kids around that.

i know what universal credit is and that he’s not entitled to more.

i know the sums involved for a bunch of reasons including him walking around with huuuuge bundles of notes and also giving our elderly dad big whacks of thousands in paper money cash to wire to him at abroad destinations because he doesn’t trust banks.