My mother in law wants to decide what to keep from a baby shower/donation.

[Gennah]

Hello everyone,

So I am currently living in Japan, and I live with my husband and mother in law. (It’s common to live with family especially when the baby comes so they can help)

I am 37 weeks pregnant now, and she has insisted that I keep all baby stuff in storage and refuses to let us use an empty room for a nursery. (Saying babies don’t need their own room)

I will be receiving a package today from my husband’s cousin which has second hand baby items. I was so excited to get it, but my mother in law said she is going to look through it and decide what to keep or throw away. (She also made me throw away a ton of clothes because she said I don’t need that many when I moved in. We can’t really afford to move out at this point considering the baby, maternity and paternity leave income cuts and my husband is going to inherit this house after she passes.)

I can’t help but feel angry about this. I am a first time mother and I appreciate help, but it’s my baby… I feel like I should have a say in what my baby will need or not need.

Considering the cultural differences and my feeling of inferiority to an experienced mother in law and elder, I am wondering if I am being unreasonable or if I am valid to feel the way I do.

Thank you for reading and for your thoughts.

please RTFT

She has no citizenship in Japan and no family in her home country.

“in my country we do x” is going to be wildly inflammatory with little to no benefit to OP.

plan carefully indeed.

I think one of the challenges encountered in multicultural relationships (I'm in one) can be maintaining a balance of those different cultures to maintain a parity of esteem. Your DH married you, not a woman from the exact same culture as his family, so there should be some recognition and respect that dynamics and traditions will be a little different. Your two cultures are different in some respects, but both are deserving of consideration and inclusion of elements in how your family lives. She, and your DH, needs to make some adjustments to their cultural expectations too.

What's your relationship with your MIL usually like? That could give you an idea of how to approach it with her that, while you respect and appreciate her, you want to have more of a say when it comes to your baby and your family unit.

What are the pros and cons of putting up with the current situation? Is this something you can live with, albeit with episodes of feeling frustrated, or is this something that will grind you down and leave you feeling resentment or depression?

OK, but she has friends I suppose. The point is she needs to go back to her country without DH and Mil being suspicious about it. Because right now she's trapped.

Yakunitatanai kōken o shite kurete arigatō. Watashi wa saisho ni sore ni tsuite shazai shimashita.

Agree with this unfortunately

I told you, if she takes the baby out without the father's permission, Japan will move heaven and earth to get it back. Then, they will barr her from entering the country, so it could be until past DC's 20th birthday (their equivalent of 18) before (and if, given the influence of the family) DC seeks out OP abroad and OP sees her child again. Really, really stupid move.

I thought of this. I have a male friend who lived in Japan for about a year for business and thought he would never be able to move out of his hotel because for the first couple of months not a single landlord would rent to him as a foreigner. He says that there is absolutely no legal redress for this there.

well isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

Thank goodness someone with a knowledge of Japanese culture came on to explain how things work there.

This was my point…

she’ll be sat in her home country…cool

having blown up her marriage.. less cool

with NO option to see her repatriated child (& her child WILL be returned to Japan and she will be denied access) for approximately 20 years…decidedly not cool

Get on a boat and get out

to what end…?
so she’s going to abandon her husband and raise her child penniless and fatherless because…her mil wants to be helpful and sort some baby clothes

I get it’s an oppressive situation but this is ridiculous advice

What the other op is saying is completely on the spot, but I also don’t understand people’s indignation. The op has presumably gone through all the stages of life with this man and family and Japan before finding herself stuck in the situation she’s currently in. Thinking now that this is inappropriate when she’s accepted all the other steps knowing that it would come to this is a bit shortsighted.

Stand up to her, she is controlling and will do so with your baby if you are not careful.
You can't let her control you like this.
Personally I'd move back to were I came from and say to my husband you either come with me or you can stay with your mum, I'm off.

A couple of things:

Firstly my sister has lived in Japan for 35 years. She is married and has a now adult DC. Her experience and in laws are very different. Her MIL helped out but didn’t live with them or tell her what to do. The difference is her husband put her first and respected her wish to follow European ways ( to an extent) in raising their DC. While saying that, her DC was pretty much raised in a similar way to most Japanese kids per education etc. I think your husband has to step up here, compromise but be firm on what is really important. Pick your battles.

Secondly you have to build a support network of other expat women. My Dsis met people through work, interests, the park even. Try and connect on social media like others have said.

Thirdly make a plan. What are your prospects for work, pension etc. Have you explored applying for citizenship? What are you plans for your baby’s nationality and foreign passports. Do you have anyone at all in your home country?

Misogyny as part of "culture" is still misogyny.

OP, in if I were in your situation I would do whatever I can to get away from the situation. You still have your passport right? You are better off in a shelter in your own country than in this crap.

Renting as a foreigner is only "no problem" if you rent in the apartment blocks/areas frequented by foreigners. These are expensive. The typical Japanese homes and landlords won't rent to foreigners unfortunately.

I think a PP explained the situation very well. As a new mum you are expected to just hunker down with your baby, there's no separate room for baby. Because baby is basically with you. I had Japanese colleagues (when I lived there) who hadn't shared a bed with their wives for years because their kid was there. They slept in living room and wife and kid in the bedroom.
So I think forget the nursery idea and recognise you're in her house for the time being so will have to accept the sleeping arrangements that she wants.
Re the clothes, just look through together
Also remember that your baby is likely to be bigger than typical Japanese babies which are often v small so any new born clothes for Japanese babies are likely to be too small very quickly. As PP said there's no storage so you'll have to just accept that you will have limited space to have baby stuff for the future.
Can you focus on some stuff you can control? Could you buy a chest of drawers or some furniture to store baby things in? I'd highly recommend that FB group to help you prepare for birth and life with a young baby. There was a previous MN thread with some good insight into giving birth in Japan.
You've married into a family where the culture and cultural expectations are very strong. This can be rewarding but is also tough, find your support network to help you through because you need people who will just get what you are going through if nothing else

While it’s true that you can’t leave Japan with your baby, once born, without your husband’s permission, there is a lot of middle ground between that and completely giving up your autonomy.

What does H think about the fact that MIL didn’t move out? When you say inherit, do you mean a gift during her life? Will finances run to a small rental together?

Do you have a plan towards citizenship so you have more independence within Japan? Do you have your own finances?

Do you have family or friends anywhere who can visit, and do you have expat friends who can provide support?

Does H agree that you can have your own possessions and privacy while living in MIL’s house?

I think you need your husband's help here.

There should be some middle ground.

If you are in someone else's small house of course you can't just clutter it up with your stuff.

That said, if you are paying towards the house/bills there should also be some acknowledgement of that as well shouldn't there?

So if it's common to live with (his) family when there's a baby where did people live before & how long re they expected to stay?

It sounds as though if you push too much you'll lose out.

I am sorry you are in this situation OP.

Regardless of culture you need to think about ways of protecting your future.
The situation may be worse after your baby is born, your MIL may have ideas that you don't agree with.
Your OH needs to step up to the mark- you need to know when you will be moving out or have your MIL move out.

I would have serious concerns about birthing in Japan- if your marriage breaks down you will find it very difficult to leave the country with your baby.
You won't be able to fly either to the UK or some neighbouring country, the journey to Australia or New Zealand by boat takes too long also.
In your position I would travel to somewhere like South Korea by boat to have my baby- you will have to pay, but it will give you and your baby some future security.

Far too late at 37 weeks pregnant, and PPs have already explained the situation around leaving the country with the baby after it’s born.

Your husband has married someone from outside his culture. Therefore there will be cultural differences. You say ‘most’ people live inter-generationally, but it’s surely not a legal requirement. No way would I be living with extended family. Move out asap! (We moved when DC1 was 7 weeks old, it’s really not that bad, especially if MIL has had you have such minimal stuff!). Good luck!

Mumsnet shocked to learn that things are different in other countries...

A problem with the West is that many well-meaning people want to respect and embrace all other cultures, yet also have this silly idea that the only differences in other cultures are superficial, eg dress or food.

Then they're horrified (and conflicted!) to discover that other cultures have wildly different expectations, social rules etc that offend their sensibilities.

Sorry but I dont give a crap what the culture says, I'm not having someone open my post and decide what is going to be thrown away against my will. Thats highly disrespectful and outrageous.

Move out. If things are this bad now, they will get a million times worse when you have the baby. Your life will be hell if these are the first signs.

It would be extremely difficult, but not too late. And as you say, once the baby is born OP won't be able to save him/her from this situation.

Moving away from the scrutiny of Japanese culture for a moment, you may well not use or want a nursery once your baby is born. In the UK the advice is to have your baby in your room for at least 12 months. In our case we didn't want the baby in another room for a bit longer than that, and once she moved into her own room we co-slept with her in there for a good couple of years. So there's something in waiting to see how you feel and what you want after the baby is born. I speak as someone who expected to be very Gina Ford and ended up being very attachment style as a parent.