Partner too close to teen daughter?

[VivienneBMama]

This is complicated so I’ll try and make it brief and please no hate I’m genuinely confused and trying to do the best by everyone.

DP lives with me and my two boys 12 & 15 and he has a DD age 19 at university, she comes home to us in holidays etc . I honestly feel love towards her as do the boys, known her since 14 etc we do nice things together as a blended family , she’s fully integrated into my huge family etc.

DP and DSD ( call her that for now) are incredibly close, they speak daily , and had a few years living together when her parents split before they moved in with us ( her mum is a doctor and works mad hours)

She gets on well with her mum but she’s not around much , has new partner and new child . I’m very aware of this and make sure she has plenty of time with her Dad and always feels completely welcome here. I actually love her being here.

BUT I feel sometimes that their relationship is a bit much emotionally and sometimes physically too (NOT sexually obviously) but sometimes very cuddly - she sits on his lap - they are both tall - she is 5.9 and he is 6.4 so sometimes it looks a bit strange . They hold hands sometimes whilst we’re out. She is very emotional and calls him sometimes 5/6 times a day . She fills him in on every thing happening at uni and runs all decisions by him. She sometimes gets a bit upset if we are alone and kind of plays him off against me wants to be alone with him a lot and says things like ‘ I need some time alone with my Dad ‘ quite regularity for dinners out etc but in quite a dramatic way rather than just them hanging out . Ira hard to explain but my sisters ( all have kids) have also noticed it they love her but feel likes it a bit much.

Its hard but we have a lovely relationship , she seems to love being here but I feel like she’s more confident and even happier when he’s not around, or when she is making decisions without him - he works away sometimes and she’s here with me and the boys so it makes me feel like the boundaries with them are a bit blurred. The physical really bothers me - once someone thought she was his girlfriend when we were out and it mortified me - maybe I’m just jealous but I’m also just a bit creeped out to be honest . I don’t want it to cause a wedge between us so I haven’t said anything I have to be really delicate. Don’t know what to do!

It doesn't mean anything is necessarily wrong......some daughters are extremely close to their dads.

In her mind she's probably still that little girl that craves physical proximity to her dad.

Tbh they sound a bit co-dependent, a bit over dependent on each other. The physical contact is probably just an extension of this.
That could also be the reason why she's more confident and secure away from him. It all kind of makes sense if she doesn't have much of a connection with her mum.
It doesn't mean there is anything untoward going on, but it also doesn't mean it's emotionally healthy!
I would chat to him about it, but don't come from an angle that the physical contact is weird. Come from an angle of wanting to build the daughters confidence up for her own wellbeing.

It is a weird dynamic. My Canadian 22 year old Neice on my DHs side, when they come to the UK to visit, always sits on my DHs lap, and hooks arms with him when we’re out. My DH feels very uncomfortable, but doesn’t say anything, as she apparently does this with all male relatives, so just sees it as part of her personality. I must admit though it makes me cringe inside. Fortunately though we only have this for three weeks a year when she visits. I think if it was every day we would maybe discuss boundaries with her, but easier in our situation as DH doesn’t like it, but your DH obviously feels comfortable with it.

Harper Beckham isn’t 19! She’s still a child.

The daughter is coming round to my house. She is laughing, she is getting all my partners attention when she's there.

What does the stepmother get out of that situation. Nothing. She loses attention by the stepdaughter being around.

It's not a zero-sum game. What the stepmother "gets" is that her partner, whom she loves, is happy about getting to spend time with his daughter. And the daughter, whom OP has said she also loves, is happy about getting to spend time with her dad. The OP has said that the whole family enjoys spending time together, so she's happy, stepdaughter's happy, partner's happy, and even the two boys. If the daughter and dad want alone time, that's normal and good - but if that time is so much it's negatively impacting the dad's other important relationships and/or the family/household dynamic, the dad needs to work on finding a balance for everyone's sake.

As for the "adult" thing to do: if this were my own 19yo daughter frequently spooning with her actual boyfriend/girlfriend while the family group is out together, so much so that strangers comment, I'd probably remind her gently that some things are private and ongoing PDA is a little bit rude/antisocial. The dad is presumably a lot older than 19, so he should have the self-control not to do this in public (or he could just grow up, if you prefer). OP is reasonable to ask him to regulate this a bit.

And how can I be misogynistic when I'm a woman. Very easily in a society as drenched in misogyny as ours. When an individual from a persistently marginalised and/or exploited class is forced by the self-replicating structures of a fundamentally unequal system to depend upon individual members of the exploiter class for any privileges - and often even for basic needs and survival - it's human nature to rationalise and excuse the discriminatory system and the acts and beliefs that support and maintain it. Misogyny is normalised, and the attitudes are sometimes so ingrained that the people with the worst cases (internalised or otherwise) genuinely don't see it. As Simone de Beauvoir said (my translation): misogyny has proven especially difficult to eradicate versus other systems of prejudice and inequality because the call is so frequently coming from inside the house.

Can you also be kind... see above.

Well that's a load of cobblers, unless the stepdaughter is Cinderella

Guarantee at 19, it will still be happening. There behaviour won't change in the sake of 6 years.

This points to one of my points: There has just not been anyone to nip it in the bud soon enough; and dad always been worried DSD might take it as a snub, or even abandonment, and as you have admitted, it broke the bond which I am very clear is one thing this dad doesn't think his daughter deserves and probably worries it will just break her given her upbringing. 19 year period is v v tricky for a girl with huge emotional needs as this one admittedly has. She herself might need thereat.

Anyway, @VivienneBMama has she been to therapy to deal with mum being away too much? Sorry if already suggested as I am still catching up.

So she is making your DH feel uncomfortable but he doesn't say anything? Let's say it was the other way around, your DH insisting on holding hands etc and the young woman feeling awkward. Everyone would yell abuse ! She is an adult and your DH should not give in to any physical contact he is not comfortable with. Please talk to him and tell him the "My body" movement is not only for children and women but for all human beings. And she needs to learn about appropriate behaviour between adults. She's an adult, not a child.

Exactly this. He would be doing everything to distance himself from her when around other pp.

I was also convinced of this as @VivienneBMama says she is more relaxed when dad is away and its just op and the boys. To me, this speaks to the DSD's need to always garner and gain her dad's attention when OP is around as it makes daughter anxious and nervous about her fears dad would abandon her in favour of op when daughter feels she will have none else.

DSD needs therapy as if she has a good relationship with the 15 and 12 yo, she really shouldn't feel she will have none if she lost dad to OP. Also, any attempts at closeness with her mum's child? Therapy will explore if DSD feels all relationships are transient if that's what her relationship with her mum (closest thing to her at one point) left her feeling like she just can't trust anything as the end is always unpredictable. These are deeper issues going on with her.

Of course all this would affect her emotional intelligence and she might have ADHD too as she is acting very immaturely and wanting to get away with it. Maybe she is even manipulative wanting everyone to accept the situation just for her sake.

I think you could address what looks like her lack of independence/can't make decisions on her own first. Sounds like she transgresses around dad and he's (knowingly or unknowingly) enabled that - maybe it makes him feel needed but he probably won't even realise it. He might get defensive when you bring it up but lots of advice on here on treading gently. I think you sound like a great mum and step-mum too xx

As for the "adult" thing to do: if this were my own 19yo daughter frequently spooning with her actual boyfriend/girlfriend while the family group is out together, so much so that strangers comment, I'd probably remind her gently that some things are private and ongoing PDA is a little bit rude/antisocial. The dad is presumably a lot older than 19, so he should have the self-control not to do this in public (or he could just grow up, if you prefer). OP is reasonable to ask him to regulate this a bit.

^ this is sensible advice. However, it needs to come from the dad, not you OP. And there is a lot more he needs to do, not just try and tell her to back off.

I have observed 'blended' families and by far the healthiest ones are the ones where both parents appreciate that the partner's children come first, respectively.

OP, please do be honest to yourself, you had a choice when you decided to move in with your partner. Your partner's dd did not have that choice, nor did your sons. Yet your partner's dd has had to adapt to being part of a family, she did not chose at an age.

Her mother abandoned this girl, can you imagine? She was too busy being doctor to love and parent her daughter, that alone would cause lifelong wounds. Her dad was there for her but it can't have been easy as the girl must have been and still is traumatised. Then her one stable parent decides to create a new family with people she does not know nor has chosen to spend any time with. That in itself is a bit icky from her perspective, imagine being forced into a new family with total strangers who you have not chosen.

All your talk about loving her is a bit much. You met her when she was a young teen or tween, it sounds like you are forcing it. Respect her and be kind but maybe leave the love stiff out of things, you are NOT her family no matter how much you imagine you are.

One additional thought, do you and your partner have completely separate finances and has he got a will that states clearly that his dd is the only beneficiary? This is very important.

Aww don't push him away! He'll think he's done something wrong. But even if not cuddling, I hope you'll still hug him. I went through a torrid time with my DS when he was a teen (he wouldn't speak to me!) but now he's out the other side of that and it's lovely when he gives me a hug as he leaves the house!

Have now read all posts from this morning.

Yes, he needs to sort himself out emotionally to let his little girl grow up. He also needs to help his daughter feel secure, happy and loved by him. Physical contact is her claiming possession of him (jealous of the OP) as well as needing tangible evidence dad still loves her and she is still important to her and his number one priority which she is and should be forever. She is away at uni and gets the love from a distance but needs to feel it is real and needs to see it. she also needs to remind you of it, by clinging on and showing you.

I also want to know how Op's 5 year relationship is going with DH- he does need to ensure OP also don't feel unloved or competing for attention.

ONE important this being hugely overlooked here, although mentioned by 1 or 2 pp is the age at which OP met DH. She was 14. For 14 years she only had her dad in a very intense and hugely relevant way for them both. Hence both need help to disentangle.

Other good advice given already,

However, seeing the dynamic, I would NEVER broach it as her needing to make her own decisions (dad will say you are jealous and I know many men who are so weak they will drop you in it if the daughter questions why the change). BUT I would take the opportunity of strangers mistaking her for his GF like a shot and start a convo. OP needs to bring it up but saying it is other people saying it and then offer advice of stopping lap sitting and hand holding when at home etc etc.

I also doubt daughter is clingy and holds hands with dad when it is just the 2 of them- this I would ask DH. Of course she might still do it when your sons are around, which speaks to her jealousy.

You love them both and you care about them both. Be sensitive as you have been and I am sure you will help them both positively.

Yes, upper class and wealthy families are like this: just not sitting on laps too much (pp here gave occasional scenarios or when having a panic which are isolated and particular events); and not holding hands too much. Personally, this would always be my starting point: my niece and her dad are close (no sitting on laps, no emotion or hand holding). I was also close to my dad- he died when I was 12- also no holding hands, sitting on laps etc. My brother assumed father figure and we have remained close. I now see it has helped I moved countries at 27; I have known his now wife since we were growing up; as he is way older, I had not needed to run all my decisions past him but I did value his advice as he is very well-rounded. Also we were 5 siblings and mum and cousins so I wasn't only just reliant on my brother for support. She only had her dad and still only had her dad.

I am very sweet and empathetic: When she says she wants time alone with her dad; I am likely to respond that ; 'You are welcome to have lone time with dad anytime. I am off to sort my wardrobe as have been procrastinating; or I am off to the gym as need to go'. But I am truly independent and that would all be true. Once she sees you are in no competition with her, trust me, she will let loose of dad.

Also, take it as a compliment that she thinks you are perfect and her dad is very happy with you and loves you. That's why she is reacting in a needy and clingy way. @VivienneBMama Good luck and take it easy!

Oh one more thing @VivienneBMama , when I hit late 30s, I saw my brother although living in a different country, had struggled to see me as a grown woman and no longer his little sister who needed him. Although we spoke infrequently, sometimes he would ring me late at night- although I was single, I was quick to realise it is not on as I could be sleeping next to someone.

I complained about it to friends. I can't recall how I dealt with it, but I must have started to miss calls or leave texts unanswered intentionally and then come back after a couple of hours suggesting a suitable time for the call. It really just started from there; so he no longer expects me to pick up anytime. I am now married anyway.

With me, I was lucky also as when I needed him less, he got extremely busy travelling to areas with no network and raising 2 little girls who were living in 2 different cities- took up 80% of his focus lol. Even our calls became short as he was busy with meetings (Got a bigger job too with huge responsibilities and always in meetings) and sometimes I needed to ring back. So our disentanglement happened naturally without any outsider forcing it.

We are still close and can be in same huge estate but only see each other once or twice a week although I know I can ring/text him anytime lol lol I even went travelling alone around Africa for 1 month to 8 different countries and only told him about it all upon my return as we were both busy prior to my planning and departure although staying in the same estate at the time.

Good luck.

It would drive me crazy if the same person phoned me six times a day, every day.
She must have no friends.

Your dsd sounds extremely immature. And yes, her father infantilises her.
But if it’s what they both want and enjoy, I think any suggestions from you are not going to be taken well.
I would have lost all patience long ago. You must be a saint.

How about, you sit on his lap when she’s around?
How about, when you’re out together, you hold her hand?
Mix it up a bit.

I understand why it makes you uncomfortable and you’ve had a hard time on here because you’re step mum so automatically in the wrong.
I can only echo what others have said about her likely feeling insecure, especially as she didn’t receive the emotional support from her mum either.
She needs to work on her confidence and security. While 19 is an adult, she’s still quite young and perhaps she’s not as mature as others. I would have a chat with your other half and discuss how you can help her feel secure and loved. He shouldn’t withdraw the affection immediately as it will hurt her but she needs to feel confident that she is loved as a grown up.

Maybe being a step parent is a red herring? Sounds like you have a nice relationship and are a caring normal person (ignore
the frankly unhinged posters🙄). Have a Dd around that age and would find that behaviour very odd. Am not a hugger myself would be my idea of a nightmare having a great big adult pawing at me even if it was my own daughter!

Dh 8 year old nephew does this to his
mum and granny and it’s uncomfortable to be around. They clearly find it uncomfortable too.

Not sure if you're projecting here but the scenario you're describing doesn't actually sound like the one in the op at all. Don't think your view is that useful here

Unfortunately every experience is different. There are many photos of my aunt as a teenager sitting on the knee of her dad. He abused her, her sisters, me and cousins.

This is a tricky one, and you need to tread carefully less you be the wicked stepmother.

Honestly, if they are behaving like this in public I'm really surprised no one has actually pulled them up yet (beyond mistaking her for his girlfriend - which I'd take no notice of - had someone mistake me for my fathers girlfriend at the same age, we were/are not physically affectionate at all - it's lucky if we ever even hugged, and he is an 'old' dad).

She's far, far too old to be sitting on daddy's lap and whilst as an adult sitting on someone's lap is flirtatious behaviour, in this case it's infantile more than incestuous I'd wager. I can certainly understand why it's a bit unsettling to see - it's not the norm, lets be honest.

I'd wonder if she has developmental issues, personally, given the rest of the context with decision making etc, and if you mention it to your DP, this is the angle I'd be coming at, rather than coming from the angle of it being inappropriate.

I distinctly remember trying to give my dad a cuddle when I saw him, I can't remember exactly how I did but it was nothing out of the norm - I think it was probably arms around his waist with my head side on against his chest. Can't recall exact age either, but I was certainly not a teenager yet, so younger than 13. I remember him telling me I was too old now to hug him like that.

Like another poster, I felt mortified and absolutely humiliated - that's pretty much when I stopped showing my dad affection, as it was clear the way I naturally showed him affection, was unwelcome.

Hence, be careful. What's done cannot be undone and you may harm their relationship.

Some good points.

This girl at 14 had no voice, take into account the separation of her parents started before that age, so she has seen her emotionally unavailable mother find a new love and have another child who is loved by both parents, how pushed out she must feel.

She has also witnessed her father fall in love again and have to move into another ready made family where male siblings have one anothers support.

She has no one, no siblings, no mother, her only lifeline is her father all other relationships in her life are conditional.
Growing from a voiceless 14 year old with few choices, whereby op probably felt in control, she was still a child, easier to manipulate, easier to manage, easier to love but now comes the harder part. The SD is now turning into a woman, she may become more confident and some of the feelings that she held within may come tumbling out now with maturity.

There maybe a sense of competition and also payback.

The financial aspect I agree with, have you all spoken of wills, from what you say you are not married, this may have a lot to do with it.
I have known many second relationships break up due to wills and inheritances.
This girl has no insurance for future inheritances, where others may naturally know they will be left monies, on both sides she will have to fight or not take it for granted.

I can understand this girl's insecurity but only now is she truly understanding the dynamics of her life and how unfair it's been for her.

Out of everyone, it is the daughter I feel for, the situation has created this dynamic of an overly needy daughter and a father racked with guilt, probably getting in writing that his wealth would go to his daughter would help, but I've got a feeling op's want of her SD growing up and being independant is something she thought would naturally occur with her and also the hope of her being financially independant.
These are adult problems, they were not relevant at 14.

Money may be at the heart of this.

Except the OP doesn't sound the least bit bitter or resentful. On the contrary she sounds like a thoughtful loving mum trying to make sense of a strange situation.

You on the other hand sound like you're trying to make this into Snow White or some other Grimm fairy tale!

"she is still important and his number one priority which she is and should be forever."

I'm sorry no. Once your children are adults (and even as kids to a degree) your spousal relationship is equal if not more important than the relationship with your child, in terms of where you are spending your emotional energy and being replenished. As a parent you don't just put kid as 'number one' and f*ck everything else; you set clear boundaries and teach them security. BUT you have to tend to and place your marriage above your children, this is good for the children. Obviously if kid is sick or in desperate need your priorties and energies may shift, and when they are babies and toddlers and literally need you to stay alive, children come first. But to put a 19 yo daughter's need to sit on daddy's lap ahead of your wife's discomfort about that is priorities totally out of whack. No wonder kids are so messed up.

I won't be pushing him away. And ofcourse hugs are always welcome ! But there is a difference between cuddling a child before puberty and after. Like now he likes to lay on me like when he was a baby. Well, I certainly will not allow that for HIS sake. And I have already told him that when he's in puberty we will do normal hugs otherwise it's indecent.