Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be glad that #IStandWithAngelaCarini is trending no.1 in the UK on X (Twitter)

1000 replies

AngeloMysterioso · 01/08/2024 16:11

Angela Carini is the incredibly brave Italian boxer who had her Olympic dream shattered in less than a minute after being punched in the face by Imane Khelif, a male competitor who was disqualified from the women’s World Championships last year because his testosterone levels were too high.
Everyone should be saying her name. Over and over and over again.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
HootyMcBooby · 02/08/2024 15:47

BMW6 · 02/08/2024 15:22

TRA are bound to be incredibly active on SM trying to distort the Truth.

In the Real world the vast majority of people will have seen and understood the truth.

The Emperor is naked and he is seen so.

And even if he's not naked you can see his cock through his shorts.

Helleofabore · 02/08/2024 16:14

the bbc has published something

Boxing controversy - what we know and what we don't https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/articles/cye0ex43k63o

”However, in an interview with BBC sports editor Dan Roan on Thursday, IBA chief executive Chris Roberts said XY chromosomes were found in "both cases".

”Roberts said there were "different strands involved in that" and therefore the body could not commit to referring to Khelif as "biologically male".

Ok. So that confirms that they are XY chromosonally. But still unclear other wise. Although, it does seem to be now acknowledged that this is not males with transgender identities. Could still be any male DSD though. However the prebious IBA statement still stands about test showing male physical advantage.

Khelif fights Carini

Olympics 2024 boxing controversy: What we know and what we don't know

The IOC's decision to allow the entry of two athletes, that are said to have failed gender eligibility tests, has proved controversial.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/articles/cye0ex43k63o

zibzibara · 02/08/2024 16:17

endofthelinefinally · 02/08/2024 13:05

Which does not confer the massive advantage of male puberty.

Agreed and I think the fact that Khelif took this to the Court of Arbitration for Sport and then dropped the case partway through reveals a lot in itself.

mumedu · 02/08/2024 16:21

Myalternate · 02/08/2024 13:05

Lisa Nandy just said on BBC News that biology matters!

I almost fainted…

Well, if so, that's a turnaround from her previous obfuscation in the shadow govt.

LunaNorth · 02/08/2024 16:34

The BBC have reported that Angela Carini has apologised to her opponent.

If that’s true, it’s chilling. Woman gets punched in the face by a man, objects to it, and then apologises for objecting.

Fuck the Olympics.

taylorswift1989 · 02/08/2024 16:38

I heard she apologised too.

Probably given no choice.

But the truth is out there.

NonPlayerCharacter · 02/08/2024 16:39

LunaNorth · 02/08/2024 16:34

The BBC have reported that Angela Carini has apologised to her opponent.

If that’s true, it’s chilling. Woman gets punched in the face by a man, objects to it, and then apologises for objecting.

Fuck the Olympics.

She's probably terrified. A single male punch wouldn't meet what she'd be threatened with en masse if she didn't.

LunaNorth · 02/08/2024 16:41

Someone’s leaning on her.

BlueLimeRun · 02/08/2024 16:46

Possibly getting a lot of abuse from TRA..

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/08/2024 16:49

I really hate women being gaslighted, browbeaten and guilt tripped into recanting and apologies when they have highlighted wrongdoing. It's clearly meant to serve as an example to us all. It's deeply abusive.

gailforce2 · 02/08/2024 17:16

This has just appeared on Twitter-
Mark Adams IOC official who said that 2 male boxers could fight women because "they are women on their passports" was Sir Keir Starmer's best man at his wedding.

BlueLimeRun · 02/08/2024 17:17

Don’t we always have to apologise and budge up.

It’s time for more people to speak up. Well done to Nicola Adam’s and every other person who stands up often at great personal cost. If more people speak up, the cost will be less (not that there should be any at all).

SweetcornFritter · 02/08/2024 17:26

NotBadConsidering · 02/08/2024 00:38

Re-posting this photo that was posted by nolongersurprised on page 21, to debunk the claim this man has female genitalia

I’m surprised that if this is indeed a penis that it is not covered by a groin protector. Seems a pretty foolish thing to do in the circumstances.

Pluvia · 02/08/2024 17:48

Not sure if this has already been posted but both the male boxers participating in the women's Olympics are pictured on TwiX dressed and presenting as male in their everyday life.

https://x.com/LottieHistory/status/1819382285898076611

This situation is really bringing out some complex and disturbing responses. I have two GC contacts, a Sudanese woman living in the UK and also an Egyptian contact currently living in Dubai. They've been involved in the GC movement for years and seemed to be sound, yet both are arguing with me (and others) that as Europeans we can't understand the cultural, social and religious pressures on these men to identify as female. They are interpreting the criticism as racist and anti-Islamic. Is anyone else being told this?

x.com

https://x.com/LottieHistory/status/1819382285898076611

HootyMcBooby · 02/08/2024 18:09

"This is not a man fighting a woman, conclusively".

Just said by the IOC on BBC Live.

Let's see the chromosome test please.

CakeAtFour · 02/08/2024 18:10

If these two people are restricted or stigmatised because of their DSD in their own countries, that is not right and needs to be addressed.

I can sympathise in general with the plight of DSD people living in societies where the cultural, religious or political climate means they cannot live openly, safely and freely.

Female athletes shouldn’t have to pay for this, though.

You cannot tell me that males should be able to play in female sporting categories ‘because racism’. Absolutely fucking not,

UpThePankhurst · 02/08/2024 18:17

HootyMcBooby · 02/08/2024 18:09

"This is not a man fighting a woman, conclusively".

Just said by the IOC on BBC Live.

Let's see the chromosome test please.

It definitely wasn't the last supper being mocked either.

Except that it was.

RoyallyEFFEDOFF · 02/08/2024 18:17

LunaNorth · 02/08/2024 16:34

The BBC have reported that Angela Carini has apologised to her opponent.

If that’s true, it’s chilling. Woman gets punched in the face by a man, objects to it, and then apologises for objecting.

Fuck the Olympics.

Ah just like any other case of VAWG

  • Women gets punched in the face by man
  • Told to not upset man by objecting to a one sided fight
  • Gaslit into apologising to man
  • Man who wants to be woman is victim

The IOC can get to fuck

SweetcornFritter · 02/08/2024 18:25

This is the last word on the subject for me - excellent as usual from Janice Turner in the Times

A simple cheek swab can protect female boxers
The IOC’s dangerous and misogynistic ideas about gender inclusion are to blame for the humiliation of Angela Carini
Janice TurnerFriday August 02 2024, 5.00pm,
Actually, we are not. Adams was perpetuating the myth that sex testing was archaic, cruel and degrading, involving athletes dropping their pants for doctors to check they had the “right” genitals. In fact, a sex test was conducted only once in a female athlete’s career: a quick cheek swab with a cotton bud revealing biological sex was added to her permanent record. Anti-doping tests are far more intrusive and can happen any time.
Owen Slot: Stop obsession with inclusivity before IOC claims more boxing casualties
That decision exemplifies the IOC’s contempt for female competitors and is the very reason the tough, seasoned Italian boxer Angela Carini abandoned her bout after 46 seconds to kneel weeping on the canvas with a bloody nose. It is also why in 2016 at Rio, the women’s 800m podium was filled entirely with biological males, including Caster Semenya who took gold.
Those runners and the two controversial boxers at these Games — Imane Khelif of Algeria and Taiwan’s Lin Yu-ting — have a DSD (difference of sexual development), that wilfully misunderstood phenomenon. They are not “intersex” — ie between or a “mix of” the two sexes — because no one is. They almost certainly have 5-ARD: they are biological males with XY chromosomes but whose bodies lack the receptor that creates external male genitalia.
In developing countries many are read as female at birth and raised as girls. But at puberty their internal testes start producing testosterone at normal levels so they acquire most of the strength, muscle mass, height and power of other men. In other words, they experience male puberty after which many start living as men. Semenya is pictured in her autobiography at 15, broad-shouldered and bare-chested on a beach in swimming trunks.
David Walsh: Ignoring biological realities is dishonest and dangerous from the IOC
Undoubtedly living in this ambiguous state in countries like South Africa or Algeria with rigid gender roles and violent homophobia is a tough fate. Such people have found refuge in women’s sport where, unsurprisingly, they have excelled. African coaches began deliberately scouting for DSD males to train for high-level female competition, since after 2000 they even had a shot at Olympic gold.
But in recent years, individual sport federations have tightened up eligibility rules regarding trans athletes and those with male DSDs. (These are totally separate, although conflated by trans activists who use DSDs to “prove” sex is not binary but a spectrum.)
Each sport has followed the same trajectory. Males start winning lower-category female contests, women lose out, no one cares until a male transitions into elite female sport: Laurel Hubbard into weightlifting; Lia Thomas, swimming; Emily Bridges, cycling. After an outcry each sport banned anyone who transitioned after male puberty from the women’s category and insisted DSD males reduce testosterone. Only World Athletics, thanks to Seb Coe, acted before, say, a mediocre male sprinter fancied FloJo’s 100m record.
Yet what of the IOC itself? In high dudgeon at this defence of female sports, it issued a gender framework document. This stated there should be “no presumption of advantage” just because an athlete is male or has a DSD. The first principle of this utterly incoherent paper is “inclusion”, which, as every sport federation has ruled, is wholly at odds with fairness to women. Second is “prevention of harm” — not to stop women like Carini being harmed by a male fist but to protect those who might suffer from being ineligible to compete.
The Race to Be Myself by Caster Semenya review — the humiliations of an Olympic athlete
What we see in Paris women’s boxing is the IOC’s ludicrous, dangerous, misogynistic principles given full rein. Since it banished the International Boxing Association (IBA) for unrelated corruption issues, the IOC has run Olympic boxing itself. After being disqualified from IBA world championships for failing gender tests Khelif and Lin, tellingly, did not appeal.
They knew the Olympics beckoned where there was neither sex testing nor testosterone rules. Mark Adams said it was enough they had female passports, a document anyone can change. In other words, the IOC allowed eligibility to women’s boxing — a sport that for safety reasons never stopped being sex-based — to be based purely on self-ID.
This calamity is not merely the IOC’s fault — it is precisely what it wants. This is sport run according to its stated principles of gender inclusion and the obliteration of sex classes. For Paris it even issued a glossary for journalists of “terms to avoid”, including “born female” and “biologically male”.
Yet fewer people will now be censored. The IOC is not just at odds with sport federations but many current female athletes, including female boxing champions who are refusing to fight Khelif and Lin. As the tide goes out on pernicious gender ideology, why does the IOC still deny science? Perhaps to court US sponsors or stay “relevant”.
But mainly because it is profoundly institutionally sexist. In 2015, it allowed any male who reduced testosterone (to a rate still ten times the female average) into female sports without consulting a single woman. It discriminates against female athletes by denying their biology where once it used it against them, banning women from the ski jump until 2014 because it might damage their wombs.
And it abolished a simple test that would have stopped Paris being remembered for televising male violence. Bring back the cheek swab: for female boxers the bad old days are now.

Ignoring biological realities is dishonest and dangerous from the IOC

Respect for gender identity is important but guidance on how to refer to athletes with differences of sex development makes no sense and ignores scientific facts

https://www.thetimes.com/article/ignoring-biological-realities-is-dishonest-and-dangerous-from-the-ioc-c27t7lxkl

endofthelinefinally · 02/08/2024 18:30

They have an "intersex expert" on LBC right now saying that XY doesn't equal male. I have turned it off and poured a glass of wine. I can't bear it.

Pluvia · 02/08/2024 18:32

CakeAtFour · 02/08/2024 18:10

If these two people are restricted or stigmatised because of their DSD in their own countries, that is not right and needs to be addressed.

I can sympathise in general with the plight of DSD people living in societies where the cultural, religious or political climate means they cannot live openly, safely and freely.

Female athletes shouldn’t have to pay for this, though.

You cannot tell me that males should be able to play in female sporting categories ‘because racism’. Absolutely fucking not,

Thanks. I thought I was misreading what they were saying but that seems to be the gist of it — that white people or people from the west criticising anyone non-white/ or not of European or US ethnicity is racist and that we can't understand so need to stop the protests. They have both interpreted Carini's apology as recognition that her reaction in the ring was racist. This is causing consternation in the groups they're in.

mumedu · 02/08/2024 18:35

LunaNorth · 02/08/2024 16:34

The BBC have reported that Angela Carini has apologised to her opponent.

If that’s true, it’s chilling. Woman gets punched in the face by a man, objects to it, and then apologises for objecting.

Fuck the Olympics.

I am done with the Olympics. It's a flop. She must have been under immense pressure and had threats to her safety. This is utter humiliation.

ChishiyaBat · 02/08/2024 18:37

endofthelinefinally · 02/08/2024 18:30

They have an "intersex expert" on LBC right now saying that XY doesn't equal male. I have turned it off and poured a glass of wine. I can't bear it.

So what are they saying then? I don't blame you for turning off, it's all so crazy isn't it enjoy the wine🍷.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/08/2024 18:38

Who is the "expert"?

endofthelinefinally · 02/08/2024 18:41

ChishiyaBat · 02/08/2024 18:37

So what are they saying then? I don't blame you for turning off, it's all so crazy isn't it enjoy the wine🍷.

Just that the male boxers "are female". It is just so infuriating. I have had 3 "be kind" people in my house and I am grumpy. Also frustrated that otherwise intelligent people are so stupid.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.