To be glad that #IStandWithAngelaCarini is trending no.1 in the UK on X (Twitter)

[AngeloMysterioso]

Angela Carini is the incredibly brave Italian boxer who had her Olympic dream shattered in less than a minute after being punched in the face by Imane Khelif, a male competitor who was disqualified from the women’s World Championships last year because his testosterone levels were too high.
Everyone should be saying her name. Over and over and over again.

Let’s hope everyone on here gets on and does that then. Actions speak louder than words

Yep had a quick grope too as shown on the video...

The IOC are not fit for purpose. Off post, but the Chinese team are again involved in doping controversy. They apparently ate tainted beef. The same defense used in Tokyo. They are winning and winning well beyond the "norm". The IOC is accepting their defense. I don't think the IOC is fit for purpose in any of these areas of contention.

For all those who have complained about, vilified and demonised those who choose to use clear sexed based language, please consider the following sentence.

“She has an unfair physical advantage over female athletes”.

Any person reading that sentence might think, oh, hang on…. But ‘she’ is female and therefore that sounds like someone just singling out a woman for being exceptional. Sounds like jealousy and spite. This is controversial.

Versus

”He has an unfair physical advantage over female athletes”.

Which sounds like just common understanding and proven fact since humans evolved. It is not controversial. It is reaffirming science.

So, admonish and vilify posters all you want. Your personal decision though, is supporting the spread of misinformation through poor communication.

It has been what has happened when the phrase ‘female with naturally high Testosterone’ is used. This was used to describe Caster Semenya. A testosterone reading for Semeny was published for the court case. 21 nmol/l!!! No female would be healthy enough on this planet to compete at the Olympics with that reading.

They would be gravely ill!!! A ‘high’ reading for a female person would be 5nmol/L and that would not be a healthy range either. The ‘healthy’ range for a female is up to around 2.5 nmol/L. Fucking massive difference between 21 vs 2.5.

So, language is vital for addressing the needs of female athletes for their safety, and their dignity.

Admonish and vilify away. I, and I suspect others too, are now immune to being told I am
’not nice’, that I am mean, that I obviously ‘hate’ people. Fuck that. No. I strive to find the truth. To find the facts and analyse what I read critically so that I understand. But sure, keep on with the admonishing and attempts to shame others.

I really think the word 'intersex' should become as taboo as 'hermaphrodite.' It's driving a lot of the public misconception and chin-stroking 'it's really, really complicated' stuff on this issue.

It appears he's a member of the male sex with XY chromosomes and a DSD.

The way his baby body developed and looked caused him to be as they say 'assigned female at birth'.

Yes there are pics of him as a little boy dressed as a girl because that's what his family believed he was, and brought him up to believe he was. They aren't 'evidence' that he's a girl, they're just clothes.

I can't imagine what it must be like to have that happen to you, or your child. And everyone should have the right to sport, self expression, achievement and success.

The issue is when we are talking unfair, unsporting and unsafe.

This current arrangement is all three and the sporting world needs to face reality and set up opportunities for people with DSDs and trans people that are fair, sporting and safe for all.

I hope there will be public, press and sports world reactions that will finally sort this out.

What a creep!

Been 'nice': a woman just got punched in the face on international TV with the consent and support of the IOC. The men choosing to do this,and the men and women supporting this, aren't being"nice" (or humane, compassionate, safe, or even showing basic logical thinking): "nice" is not an option now,and unfortunately good people may hear things that are uncomfortable to hear. But unfortunately, fair isn't "nice" to everyone, and life isn't fair .

Anyone still harbouring any doubts about how he perceives himself and still feeling sympathetic to his situation should spend two minutes looking at his own instagram. He’s a cheat. He knows he’s a cheat. He doesn’t care, even though his cheating could kill a woman.

I’m not quite done with how the female boxer burst into tears and tried to avoid the guy after having made the decision to end the game.
She was furious, and so so frustrated. It really got me, even worse than the punches. That ‘What the hell, how is this even possible’ feeling.

I hope she feels the support she’s getting.

Edited to fix an errant inverted comma

Many photos from his Instagram have been removed since Monday, I witnessed this myself.
Also screenshots on twitter with before & after shots which shows his wiki has been frantically updated (rewritten!)

Whatever difficulties khalif has had, I do feel sympathy for.
But anyone reasonable person would acknowledge the unfairness and wouldn’t fight women. They are choosing to do this. There’s no excuse for that.

Guess they want to win while beating women up along the way.

Thanks I can see it now it wasn't loading the screen shot when I was looking earlier.

Aside from the fact that Khelif isn't claiming to be trans, Iran state-subsidises sexual reassignment surgery and is only behind Thailand for the number of these operations carried out. Iran has fielded women's football teams where most of the players are male. The idea that an Islamic country wouldn't send a trans person to the Olympics shows that you are ignorant of the social conservatism that both underpins the trans movement and dislikes biological women's participation in sport, and you are unaware of the lengths countries, particularly authoritarian ones, have gone to to succeed at international sporting events.

Happy to be informed otherwise but many website about DSDs are listing Klinefelters as a DSD.
DISORDERS OF SEX DEVELOPMENT - PMC (nih.gov)
Sex Chromosomes DSD :: DSD Families
DSD-LifebrochurecliniciansfinalEnglish.pdf

Don't want to derail but even some DSD advocacy charity websites include it.

Agreed it doesn't really have anything to do with this particular case though.

@montysma1 indeed- people forget there is a lot of money in high level sport these days- its not enthusiastic amateurs outside of the olympics. If you have male chromosomes but identify as a woman and can get away with it - it's going to be way easier to get to the top in certain sports and make very good money within the women's competitions. Some things like shooting or equestrian I can see wouldn't really make a huge difference - boxing or athletics- ?? Big big difference

All true, great post.

The stupid thing is that the IOC could solve all their problems in an instant be reinstating the cheek swab test. Female athletes are in favour of it and if you have nothing to hide why would you object.

Of course it won’t fit the “be inclusive” narrative they’re trying to ram down our throats, so until the grown ups are back in charge this will continue to happen.

Is there a petition or protest letter or the address of the IOC. I want to do something but I can't go to Paris to protest.

I’m surprised at the fact that, before his sporting potential was spotted and before he began boxing, right from his birth actually, in a culture where boys are especially prized, a family chose to raise a baby as a girl when his sex was unclear.

Obviously their doublethink ideological 1984 agenda, where journalists and observers alike are coerced into disbelieving their eyes, takes priority over fairness, common sense, and women's safety.

You're right a cheek swab test is really no big deal. It's a hell of a lot less 'intrusive' than covid tests (shoving swabs into your nose) which until recently everyone was expected to do without any fuss.

The only possible reason not to do this is an anti-woman agenda.

CaveMum

I totally agree a out cheek swab. The whole thing about inclusivity and the Olympics is that it is for elite athletes and it has srx based categories. It's not a club that anyone can join!

I'd love to go to the Olympics but I don't qualify in any category. And someone with a Y chromosome doesn't qualify for a female sport!

IOC daily press conference live now: https://www.youtube.com/live/8Qhq_kJZeEw?si=g77hROfRtkw153S2

Since when is the Olympics (or any sport) about 'inclusivity'?

It is specifically about the elite best of the best and frankly I remember as far back as school days hating P.E. because it was just that. You didn't get picked for Netball, football etc etc unless you were an asset. I was often excluded or humiliatingly selected last with my asthmatic self.

Went to a girls school, but at Primary frequently bashed up by the boys in the mixed football/ cricket. Once we reached 9-10 teachers separated us into boys and girls groups.

It's amazing that in 2024 I should look back at those hated experiences with a wishful longing for a return of the sensible pragmatism that governed them.

This is a good point. Why doesn’t he wear a hijab if he’s a woman?

https://x.com/coachcaroline/status/1819287723548475771?s=42