To be glad that #IStandWithAngelaCarini is trending no.1 in the UK on X (Twitter)

[AngeloMysterioso]

Angela Carini is the incredibly brave Italian boxer who had her Olympic dream shattered in less than a minute after being punched in the face by Imane Khelif, a male competitor who was disqualified from the women’s World Championships last year because his testosterone levels were too high.
Everyone should be saying her name. Over and over and over again.

A transwoman has XY chromosomes. Just saying.

Nicola Adams

Khelif grew up in a rural village in Tiaret Province, in northwestern Algeria.[2] She originally played football before switching to boxing. In her early years, she had to commute to a neighboring village to attend training sessions, and sold scrap metal to afford the bus fare.[3] She mentioned that her father initially did not allow her to participate in sports because "he did not approve of girls boxing"

So here's where I'm confused. A girl in a very poor family in rural Algeria is allowed to travel by bus to attend training sessions in another village, presumably training with boys and men?

How many Algerian women are boxers? How many Algerian women in any sports, for that matter?

“i do know that the IOC aren’t slap-dash about these things. They have a team of doctors and specialists and they make informed judgements based on the athlete’s medical history. We might not agree with their judgement, but we can’t make an informed judgement based on looks alone.”

And yet, the IOC created the very situation where 3 male athletes took the podium positions in 2016 in Rio in the female 800 m. You can use that as a defence that the IOC wouldn’t allow this all you like. However, Budgett, their head medical advisor has stated back in 2022, that they are aware that their policies are ‘unfair’ to female people but that they choose ‘inclusion’ over ‘fairness’.

Your statement saying 1-3% of people are born with a difference in sex development shows you are woefully misinformed. No. It is 0.018%. But don’t let fact get in the way of you admonishing others who don’t use ‘nice’ language that you choose to use.

This athlete knows that they are male. They have known at the very least officially since 2023.

How respectful is it to female athletes, for someone who knows they are male and have a physical advantage over female athletes, which is inherently dangerous to female people, to choose to put female athletes in danger by continuing to compete? How respectful is that?

I would call that decision pure misogyny. Yet here you are defending a male athlete’s decision to put female athletes in danger. Not only defending that decision, but admonishing people calling it out and using blunt and clear language to do so.

How ‘nice’.

Well done Nicola!!!

I saw she was about to make a statement last night. She is very brave to do this.

I’ve worked in the NHS, on the frontline, for years and years. Many of the “facts” they churn out for us, have been found to be incorrect time and time again.

It’s my belief that the whole male/female thing will be a time bomb for so many unfortunate people, particularly children.

Audley Harrison has replied to Nicola with a word salad that boils down to “it’s complicated - be kind” 🙄

I hate that so many males who are violent towards females

I won’t drop that hatred or the anger I feel

and that it is now an Olympic sport is the very definition of misogyny in action

utterly shameful that anyone would defend this

Facebook and instagram knee deep in videos from people furious about this fight this morning. 'It's complicated' is getting a short, sharp answer.

My God.

What language do you think would be acceptable to discuss the fact that these two boxers are male and have been found to have a competitive advantage over women, and were banned from the women's competition by the governing body of their own sport but then were subsequently allowed to compete in the women's categories at the Olympics because the IOC overruled that decision?

What vocabulary can we use to discuss this issue in a way that you feel is kind and sensitive but also gets the above facts across in a clear and unambiguous manner?

Where being kind and being truthful are incompatible and being untruthful puts women and girls at risk, we have to prioritise being truthful.

Come on in, Nicola, the water's lovely.

It's not, it's full of shit, but so is the Seine.

The IOC are cowards who don't want to be the ones who say NO. They didn't want the backlash from the tra lobby when it originally blew up so passed the buck to individual sports bodies. They screwed up because they are still stuck in the too scared mode. Yes I know khelif is a male with DSD raised at least in the beginning as a girl rather than transgender but if you say no to one you have to say no to the other too.

The sum total of the medical and scientific research the IOC did to check which category this boxer should box in was to check their passport had an F in it.

Not sure where I read it now but Khelif took up boxing at 14, by that age there would probably be question marks over puberty as it wouldn't look quite right.

i do know that the IOC aren’t slap-dash about these things. They have a team of doctors and specialists and they make informed judgements based on the athlete’s medical history. We might not agree with their judgement, but we can’t make an informed judgement based on looks alone.

In this case however it it's important to note that the IOC have done nothing at all with regards to assessing his condition. His passport says female and they went with that.

The IBA went through a much more extensive process and declared him to have too much of an advantage for female competition

Have a look at Khelifs Instagram, I agree with you.

“i do know that the IOC aren’t slap-dash about these things. They have a team of doctors and specialists and they make informed judgements based on the athlete’s medical history.”

Did you see the Mark Adams’ statement to a question from journalists this week about this topic?

He said that because these athletes had a ‘F’ in their passports, they were considered female for this event.

Do you understand that many countries now allow male people to change the sex designation in their passport because they feel like doing so?

Now please tell us again why you believe - ”that the IOC aren’t slap-dash about these things. They have a team of doctors and specialists and they make informed judgements based on the athlete’s medical history.” Because in light of Mark Adams’ statement, you seem either woefully naive or dreadfully misinformed. Although both could be true as well.

Cross posted with Keating

Can anyone link to what Nicola Adams has said? I'm not on X

WarriorN‘s post has the screenshot

🤣🤣🤣 Your rant makes absolutely no sense. But typical & on cue for you lot you shout transphobic as it's one of the main buzz words in your ilks limited vocabulary.

Link your evidence that Khalif is transgender because noone on here is claiming he is. He has been proven to have XY chromosomes & was banned from competion XY = male

Now seeing as you have branded us transphobic when trans has nothing to do with this discussion link your evidenceb to back up your baseless slur.

Things to bear in mind for a lot of the arguments in both directions -

There's NOTHING to suggest Khelif is trans - conflating the two things is stupid & embarrassing. TW & ppl with DSDs that infer benefits should not be in women's sport but the reasons are very different.

Assuming DSD It's VERY likely Khelif, given their childhood, had no idea growing up. Was labelled female, lived and grew up believing themselves to be a girl/woman. No one knows when/if they found out but it seems likely they absolutely know now.

The IBA haven't said & no one knows what this test was & though they might be corrupt AF (like every sports org seems to bloody be) the accusations of this being Russian meddling is silly. Russia don't put a face on their shitstirring & why, of all countries, go for Algeria & Taiwan when they've 'good' relationships with them.

Both the boxers in question essentially accepted their disqualification. Surely you'd go to any lengths to definitively clear your name to avoid any future BS.

Two female boxers, at least, who know what it's like to get punched in the face (repeatedly!) by other women have said they've never been hit like that before. Whether Khelif lost or not in the past due to being mediocre is irrelevant.

There is a suggestion that DSD sufferers are being deliberately sought out & it's been going on for a looong time. It's a fantastically rare condition so why are they are over-represented in high level athletics? Do you think everyone approaching 7ft chooses basketball or that ppl say to them 'Jfc you need to play basketball!'?

It's exploitative for them & grossly unfair on women. In this case it's outright dangerous, no ifs no buts. It's no secret what some coaches & trainers will put their sportsppl through in the name of winning & we KNOW it steps over into abuse & even medical malpractice (especially when it comes to women).

Something is awry with both these boxers just no one knows exactly what, who knew & at what point. It makes zero sense that neither team have gone to extreme lengths to prove their innocence & show their athletes do not present excessive risk to other competitors. Even if you discount the idea of fairness! Just the literal physical harm to other women.

I’d rather spend my energy on fighting actual day in day out male violence against women. Instead of coming on here shit talking this athlete send a donation to refuge.

Ah yes and there were never any men on women's wards.

Yes such a shame it’s not possible to do both at the same ti-

Oh hang on, it is🙄

I'm on No 1 too. There is definitely more to this.