To not know when to just go 'fuck it, sack off the holiday and go home'

[kaleidoscoperuby]

We're on a UK holiday and DS14 is just vile. He had no complaints about the planned holiday when it was booked 18 months ago but has been saying recently he didn't want to go. We offered for him to stay with GPs, he said no. He's angry, rude, uncommunicative, storming ahead, tutting, sighing - generally has a face like thunder.

He's autistic but well travelled and we're pretty good at dealing with his needs - was all factored in.

We're away for 10 days with a week to go. I'm just thinking we should go home and be done. But it seems like such a waste. We're many hours from home.

When do you give up and go home? Is that just teaching them that behaving badly = getting what they want?

When do you stop travelling as teens are so vile? We have quite a few abroad trips planned over the next few years but I'm considering cancelling them all but I really love travelling (and we won't be able to leave DS at home for many years due to his needs so no holidays for anyone).

You need to be careful though. Sometimes the 'bad behaviour ' is due to the person being completely overwhelmed/extemely anxious.

You need to know when you can push things and when you really can't because the person just isn't able for it in that moment.

Telling someone who's just about holding it together or on the verge of melting down that 'they're being vile and ruining your holiday' will only make things worse. I can't see how it can help? At other times, when they're calmer, discussing the impact their behaviour is having on others may be something they do need to hear.

But be careful not to blame them for things they can't help, or maybe can't help at their particular developmental stage. ND kids are often emotionally younger than their chronological age. Work on things they can change and this can take time and the goals change over time too.

She’s not but you are saying my suicidal NDx 3, ptsd dd can manage the same as your quirky daughter. She can’t.

Telling a ND person behaviour they are ashamed of and can do little about when in complete overwhelm is only going to make things worse. It will pile on even more anxiety and shame for next time.

You have no idea what other families are doing or what is involved with the ND they are dealing with

What do you fear he might do if left alone in the accommodation? Hurt himself? Trash the place? Is it just a fear that he might do these things, or has experience shown you that he will?

And how is this preparing a ND child for the adult world they are going to live in. No matter how you wish the world will change for your child or people will just do everything the way they want it done. Not going to happen. A a parent you need to prepare your child for adulthood, if you don't, what does the future hold for them ? A life in which they live with their parents until the parents die ? Then what ? Or will they have to live alone forever without a job because they can't understand why people don't follow their rules and demands ? Or is there a magic switch that flips when anyone ND child becomes 18? Either of the first two options is not good for anyone and there is no switch.

There's so many comments on here that are lovely and helpful and so many that have no idea what people with a severe social and communication disorder have to manage (or the families who do their best to help develop and nurture while not destroying these young people). It makes me feel quite sick about the world he has been brought into and the level of judgement, ignorance and hatred they will face.

DS may be 14 but for some things he's like a 7 or 8 year old. Other things like a 10 year old etc. I hope when he's a much older adult, the spiky profile will level out but his specialist school, the professionals and us have very complex plan to get him there. It's not linear. It's not clear cut and it is not easy.

Shouting at him, smashing his devices, telling him he's ruined everything and berating him for his disability is not going to move anything forward, it'll just set him back years of progress. You can't parent ND children in the same way as NT, everyone knows that.

When I said his needs have trumped everything, I don't literally mean he's ruled the roost and demanded everything and got everything. I just mean we've had to consider his disability every second of every day and try and engineer success, development and learning to achieve the end goal of independence at some point.

I totally get NT parents think we're pandering to our children but please don't judge until you've walked in our shoes. This could have been your life just as easily as it was mine. Everything we have to do is professional advice.

Thank you for the solidarity from all the ND parents who understand. We're doing ok today. Low demand / Low activity has = low anxiety and much less poor communication. Still undecided if going home would just be easier but we'll see.

😂
You really have no idea. Telling a ND child their behaviour is vile isn’t going to flip a switch and is NOT preparing them for adulthood or helpful.

I am preparing my child for adulthood and putting more effort into it than most parents need to.

As my ND DD's clinical psychologist pointed out, the teenage years are in many ways the hardest as they do not have control over their world and have to fit in with others. She commented that once they become adults, it actually becomes much easier as they tend to choose activities that they can manage, career choices that work for them and surround themselves with people who they know will understand. The concept that they have to "get used to the world outside" was wrong in her opinion. There are times that this has to happen - but because they are so much more in control of the rest of their lives, they are much more able to cope with the few things they cannot control.

As teenagers, they can be overwhelmed with everything else in their lives and so they desperately try to control the few things they can. While yes, ND children can be badly behaved, it is often the case that they simply cannot control their emotions when overwhelmed. Understanding is needed, and a conversation when they are calmer about how to manage better next time. Not punishment.

I would just go home, why put everyone through more. Next time book closer to home so gps can remove him or take a friend for him to socialise with or get him to say where he'd like to go.

Teens can be difficult and that is without any ND. You've obviously had years of it so what would you advise others in the same situation? Are there holiday camps for those with sns that might suit him better next time?

Barring all that just ignore him and write it all off for this year. Headphones and a book?

So glad you’re having a better day.We do the low demand day alternative thing too. Planning itineraries together really helps .Too many people isn’t good for my dd. She will do really well with walking( she has hypermobility too)but when she’s done she’s done so we have to be aware of that. She’s not that good if overheated for too long either .

Good for you but hope that includes showing your child that others have feelings, needs and requirements.

He's autistic - he has great difficulty coping with change and it's unreasonable to blame anyone for that.
Can you take him home, leave him with grandparents and then come back to your holiday? Not ideal but maybe the least bad option if it can be managed?
And be realistic about holidays in the next few years - maybe later on you'll have more freedom.

It was one of the most popular topics years ago and was amazingly helpful but, there were so many uninformed people posting irrelevant advice (and nasty comments) as they often failed to realise the subject of the thread was a ND child that Mumsnet decided to change how it was accessed (I think you couldn’t search conversations and the threads didn’t appear in the list of active conversations.

I don’t know if this has changed since then but after those measures you could Only see the tumbleweed passing by…

My be priority is helping them to manage their disability. They are kind lovely young adults however when in complete overwhelm and anxiety no I don’t lecture or focus on the feelings or needs of others. That has happened naturally throughout childhood.

It sounds very difficult

maybe a holiday during these teen years is just not possible ? If the stress outweighs the benefit and there’s little benefit to him?

You prepare them to the very best of your ability, but the reality is many autistic adults do continue to live at home and autistic adults have very low levels of employment when compared with NT adults.

Usually, that's not because they haven't tried. Or because the parents haven't parented right. It's because it's a disability. People are affected to varying degrees. It's not a level playing field, not even among the ND community. Probably especially not among the ND community. Additional needs vary so much and autism is generally not a superpower whatever those ridiculous slogans say.

You're right, there is no magic switch. Hopefully society could become more accomodating of difference and diversity instead of expecting all the effort to come from the ND person. I actually thought we were moving in that direction but some of the attitudes on this thread have been depressing really.

I just wanted to say I hear you and send a huge hug.

It is an unrelenting, ever changing and completely exhausting 24hr experience. We are unable to leave our DC ( 18/15/11) with anyone. My very loving husband is also Autistic and as ADHD. I now finally understand why he has struggled to offer any adequate support over the years.

The FB/ insta images of other people’s holidays (fake perfect or not) at this time of year is another kick in the teeth.

I think you are in a really hard phase. So maybe take a step back from holidays for a while. Use the time and the money to do things that fill your cup. Be kind to yourself. Do not be judged by others. Your life. Your experience.

Take turns staying with DS and go out for individual activities; alternate days. Try and hire a nurse or caregiver for a day so you and hubby can have a day together. Rinse, repeat.

Try and hire a nurse or caregiver for a day so you and hubby can have a day together.

Do you mean for these holidays?
Because that won't work.

@Getonwitit No there is no magic switch. Autism is a lifelong social and communication disability.

I've sat here trying to type a response that encapsulates all I'd like to reply with but words fail me.

The ableist, nasty responses demonstrate such lack of knowledge and insight. Wow. Im sad for all the autistic children growing up around adults and peers who hold these beliefs and for all the autistic people who have gone before.

Perhaps there is a place in the upbringing of an autistic child for "widening horizons". I can tell you now it won't be on holiday when they are acclimatising to the transition and change of being in a new place/climate/environment. It needs to be when all other variables are familiar, when they feel safe and unchallenged by the world around them.

OP- stay strong. Low demand all the way xxxx

I'm glad you're having an easier day x

I get it completely, ADHD myself, partnered with an ASD hubbie, all three adult kids with ASD, one with ADHD, one with Dyspraxia and one OCD and severe anxiety.
My stepson has severe LD & ASD, my eldest grandson ASD/GDD/ADHD.

Neurodivergency in my family is the norm rather than the exception and it's flipping exhausting.

I'm would love to take my grandson on holiday again but the last time we went when he was 4, 4 years ago, was so horrific I just don't think I can do it again.

In solidarity x

Just 22% of autistic adults are in any type of work. Slow hand clap for the failure to see what is brutally in front of all our eyes, where ND exists in the family.

https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/news/new-data-on-the-autism-employment-gap

I hope you enjoy your smugness as you watch your children work normal jobs with normal lives while we wait for our ND kids' switches to magically flip.

What a fucking joke.

Ah … hormones!

Tbh op it’s a perfect time to try to knock the edge off some of his domineering rigidity . I understand the autism makes that harder, but instead of shying away, how do you think he would respond if factually and without emotion you explained how you had been looking forward to it and he is ruining it for you? You would like him to join in and support thd activities. Talk him through how you would like him to act and he may surprise you - even if just for a couple of hours a day . It sounds simple but teens can be surprisingly dimwitted when wrapped up in their own feelings .

My ASD kid is horrific for a few days then settles into holiday life. Hoping yours is coming out of the ASD routine change rage 🤞
Mine is deeply entrenched in start of holiday retaliation currently- I’ve been hit and screamed at a lot his week so I feel you!