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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not know when to just go 'fuck it, sack off the holiday and go home'

407 replies

kaleidoscoperuby · 31/07/2024 16:44

We're on a UK holiday and DS14 is just vile. He had no complaints about the planned holiday when it was booked 18 months ago but has been saying recently he didn't want to go. We offered for him to stay with GPs, he said no. He's angry, rude, uncommunicative, storming ahead, tutting, sighing - generally has a face like thunder.

He's autistic but well travelled and we're pretty good at dealing with his needs - was all factored in.

We're away for 10 days with a week to go. I'm just thinking we should go home and be done. But it seems like such a waste. We're many hours from home.

When do you give up and go home? Is that just teaching them that behaving badly = getting what they want?

When do you stop travelling as teens are so vile? We have quite a few abroad trips planned over the next few years but I'm considering cancelling them all but I really love travelling (and we won't be able to leave DS at home for many years due to his needs so no holidays for anyone).

OP posts:
TruthorDie · 01/08/2024 08:24

BurnerName1 · 31/07/2024 22:02

Yes and many of us are doing the same for our ND children in a completely different way to you. The test for me is: are everyone's needs being met? The OP's are not from what I read.

It's probably different for my DC because I'm physically disabled as well as ND. Frankly ND is the least of my problems. It probably forced DC to realise that their 'needs' were sometimes wants and no more important than anyone else's, regardless of any labels.

Yep. Needs and wants are so regularly confused

Personally l wouldn’t be going home. You are allowed to have some down time and you can’t just not have a holiday for the next decade or so. It sounds it’s not all neurodiversity and partly teenage entitlement. I would also be very blunt about how he’s ruining it for everyone and it’s not all about him. He does have a place to retreat to and sometimes in life we have to do stuff we don’t want to do

Gr33nSpot · 01/08/2024 08:26

TruthorDie · 01/08/2024 08:24

Yep. Needs and wants are so regularly confused

Personally l wouldn’t be going home. You are allowed to have some down time and you can’t just not have a holiday for the next decade or so. It sounds it’s not all neurodiversity and partly teenage entitlement. I would also be very blunt about how he’s ruining it for everyone and it’s not all about him. He does have a place to retreat to and sometimes in life we have to do stuff we don’t want to do

ND varies- massively. Some have more needs than others.

TruthorDie · 01/08/2024 08:28

Gr33nSpot · 01/08/2024 08:26

ND varies- massively. Some have more needs than others.

I didn’t say they didn’t vary or their needs. I’m very aware one size doesn’t fit all. People do regularly conflate wants and needs

Gr33nSpot · 01/08/2024 08:31

My ND dc would find it very hard staying with grandparents and I’m not sure DC or GP would cope.

If he can’t be left he really doesn’t have anywhere to go to. Wondering if planning out some kind of visual timetable for the next few days would help. Sitting together and listing what you’d all like to do and how to incorporate it. I’ve done a couple of things on my own this holiday so overwhelmed DD could have some time out. DH took over and I’ll do the same for him.

Gr33nSpot · 01/08/2024 08:33

TruthorDie · 01/08/2024 08:28

I didn’t say they didn’t vary or their needs. I’m very aware one size doesn’t fit all. People do regularly conflate wants and needs

I don’t think ND people are aware of their needs enough. A huge part of MH support seems to be giving YP the skills to identify their needs and plan accordingly.

Sugarnspicenallthingsnaice · 01/08/2024 08:43

My last holiday abroad with kids was 2019 when they were 14 and 15. They're the very worst ages for it for sure.

DP was away separately with his own two of similar age. We rang each other in tears and vowed 'never again!'. Waited a few years - thanks pandemic - and now holiday together without them.

As for your question OP, no! You earned this holiday, try to find a way to make the most of it, even if it's just sitting in a nice spot with wine and your headphones in while he sooks in another room. Can you tag team with DH to get some time out alone?

OneInEight · 01/08/2024 08:49

I gave up on holidays when my neurodiverse ds's were a similar age as i got fed up spending money on a holiday none of us enjoyed. ds1 wanted to do stuff that was beyond the physical capabilities of anyone else. ds2 would vastly have preferred to stay at home & found being in a new location stressful even before adding in different activities & simply didn't have the fitness to do anything that ds1 wanted. So the whole holiday was trying to negotiate compromises and as a consequence nobody got what they really wanted. So we vetoed holidays for a few years but did restart last year and had a much better one mainly because they can now be left on their own or can be trusted to go off and do stuff independently which has made a huge difference. And although it did seem like ds2 was determined to ruin holidays in teenage years by not wanting to do anything in retrospect he had already gone way out of his comfort zone by going on the holiday itself.

Goldcushions2 · 01/08/2024 08:50

God help you OP, it sounds hellish for a very long time.

Cancel the future holidays and look at holidaying separately as you and your husband desperately need a break.

I cannot imagine how hard things are for you. Take care.

CautiousLurker · 01/08/2024 08:51

Just reading other posts - I think the advice to keep holidays short is where I land, along with having an escape route - my ADD/ADHD are older now and high functioning, so I appreciate things are very much different for me now after days being stuck with an an aloof child stuck in shutdown mode. I think the shutting down is almost more difficult to deal with than full blown melt down, which i’ve found mine have grown out of (in public).

The last/very recent holiday to Italy was 2 weeks and chosen by my teens as it had a mixture of activities, access to town to walk in without the drama of arranging buses etc, and was AI with multiple restaurants, which gave them the choice of taking themselves to the general restaurant at 930pm when it was a bit quieter but still had plenty of choice over foods.

However, the eldest hit the wall by day 10. In fact DD had tried bloody hard not to melt down or withdraw, but we spaced the trips out and made clear that it was absolutely okay for her to spend the day in the room with her steam deck or doing her art, so long as she met us for meals and checked in, perhaps for a drink every now and then. This seemed to work.

We were careful to only book 4-5m in advance - mine change their minds/preferences and coping styles so much over 18m and the build up is so long that I think it creates a level of expectation in all parties that is fraught with disappointment. We also decided that it was our last 14 day trip. From here on, we will go for 2x 7 days and/or maybe some 4 day weekend breaks. We travelled with easyjet, so really it wouldn’t have cost that much more to do two shorter trips than the full 14 day, and we chose a seriously posh resort as it was my first overseas hols for 5 years, so we could easily do multiple shorter trips for less money.

Parenting ASD children doesn’t mean they call the shots, but there is no way to ensure everyone had a good time, most of the time, unless there is open discussion about expectations and that these are kept realistic. (This is the same, I asume, where there are no ND members.)

I have a brilliant pic of my two in Disney/Florida aged 6/9. A holiday the elder one in particular remembers with fondness. She is stood scowling, arms crossed in front of the castle with her brother. As we took the picture an American woman howled with laughter at their expressions. I went to the loo and sobbed with disappointment and frustration.

It’s taken 19 years of disappointing holidays, of marital bickering, and me crying in the loo to finally fine tune it. Although kids hopefully heading to uni in next few years, they will likely live at home/with family, so they will be holidaying with us for the foreseeable. Our recent holiday was brilliant, even if eldest spent last 3 days exclusively in her room. We’ve learned to let it go.

CautiousLurker · 01/08/2024 08:52

Sorry, that was a long post… my ADHD means I am particular about trying to be understood and not cause offence… so too many words…

Lovelydovey · 01/08/2024 08:58

DS12 is being assessed for autism and ADHD. He finds holidays hard. We spend a lot of time preparing him for what will happen and try and take his suggestions on what he would like to do into account (giant swing, inflatable water park, zip line all features of our most recent break). But we also remind him a lot that it is not just his holiday and he needs to accommodate what others want to do also and while he might not enjoy it, we expect him not to disrupt it (coastal walks, gardens etc). He is a keen swimmer so we tend to find the local leisure centre and get him swimming lengths each morning - that tends to set a good tone for the rest of the day as he has used up excess energy and is hungry (he can get overwhelmed with food choices on holiday).

CableCar · 01/08/2024 09:00

kaleidoscoperuby · 31/07/2024 17:21

Thank you. There's never much traffic on the Sen boards so I tend not to bother.

I think I thought this was usual teen stuff but the more it's unpicked I realise it's probably not! It would never cross my mind that we could just go out and leave him with his needs - that shows how far away from a usual teen experience we're having.

No particular advice as my DC haven't reached the teen years yet, but I have read all your messages and just want to say that I hugely empathise on the SEN parenting side of things. My eldest has ADHD and is autistic, and his needs dictate EVERYTHING. It's only week 2 of the school holidays and I am already feeling so frustrated that his needs trump anything anyone else might possibly want to do. I find myself so anxious about upsetting him incase he explodes. His poor NT sibling just has to fit in around him. There isn't a bone of compassion in his body - any empathy shown is only a learned response. He always has to be right. Of course we take the lead and deal with the outfall, as I'm sure you do... But ND kids are so much harder to parent because the society rulebook (which actually does exist, you just don't realise it until your child doesn't fit the NT expectations) just doesn't work for them... Sending peace, love and strength! I hear you!!!!!!!!

AnnieMcFanny · 01/08/2024 10:46

Gr33nSpot · 01/08/2024 08:26

ND varies- massively. Some have more needs than others.

I think this is something a lot of people, even parents of those who are on the spectrum, don’t understand.

BurnerName1 · 01/08/2024 11:48

AnnieMcFanny · 01/08/2024 10:46

I think this is something a lot of people, even parents of those who are on the spectrum, don’t understand.

Ironically this viewpoint would get you shot down in flames on many ND threads. 'How dare you say my functional but quirky kid is less severely impaired than the nonverbal child in the corner smearing poo on the walls! How dare you!'

BurnerName1 · 01/08/2024 11:49

@kaleidoscoperuby I hope today is a better day for you and your family.

Pirateshipmethinks · 01/08/2024 11:50

BurnerName1 · 31/07/2024 21:26

I love this post more than I can say.

I honestly think a portion of the 'neurodiversity' movement is causing enormous longterm harm. Most adults here grew up at a time when neurodiversity wasn't even recognised. Many of us suffered a lot masking for years and years BUT we also learned enormous resilience and coping skills because we had to.

Greater understanding of ND is wonderful and simple adjustments can make a massive difference but the world cannot and should not revolve around ND people. At that point the balance tips into narcissism not neurodiversity. As a ND parent with ND DC I want to teach DC to survive and thrive in a world that will not centre them. Why should it?

I accept a lot of what you say about the world not centering ND and the importance of developing coping stategies.

But...
I think you may be forgetting that just because a certain way of parenting worked well for you and your children, that does not necessarily mean it will work for everyone. People vary, especially ND people, and so does their ability to cope.

I know two autistic people very well ( both got the Aspergers diagnosis).

One is married with kids, has a great career working from home, travels a lot. Presents at conferences. Suffers with anxiety but has built a very supportive network over the years and realises the importance of downtime. Has a loving and supportive family.

The other wasn't able to finish school. Huge MH issues including GAD and also OCD which dominates their life. Looking unlikely this person will ever be able to live independently. I really don't believe narcissism is the issue. Has a loving and supportive family.

I don't think these outcomes are due to parenting differences.
There is a lot of blame impllcit in your comments.

BurnerName1 · 01/08/2024 11:55

@Pirateshipmethinks That's my point really. People have different limits but sometimes there is too much softly softly and not enough expanding the comfort zone in tiny increments to learn the coping skills. That's all I'm saying.

ComealongMartha · 01/08/2024 12:00

My asd ds is now an adult but I remember these moments. I don’t have many happy memories of this time.
I know it’s not helpful but I wanted to show some solidarity.

frazzledbutcalm · 01/08/2024 12:08

Sadly, this thread has made me realise our ND children and young adults will never be understood by society in general. They will continue to be expected to fit into a world that they do not understand, cannot navigate, where they face hostility, prejudice, judgement and impossible expectations. Appalling.

FancyBiscuitsLevel · 01/08/2024 12:10

@kaleidoscoperuby if you are still reading - go home.

give it a day at home and then leave ds with grandparents and go back for the last 5 or so days just you and dh. You probably need the break.

cancel all future bookings and just do last minute things once you know how the land lies. You could keep your holiday leave bookings in so at least you know the time you have off.

feel for you, on holiday with a child we are in the process for getting an autism diagnosis with and she’s spent a lot of time in the hotel room. (Am regretting not paying extra for a sea view, spent a lot of time on this balcony)

Pirateshipmethinks · 01/08/2024 12:27

OP has already said she won't be leaving her DS with grandparents at this time.
I agree with that...wouldn't be fair on the grandparents for a start.

Getonwitit · 01/08/2024 12:41

Tell him he is being vile and ruining your holiday. Just because he is Nd it doesn't mean he is allowed to upset everyone else. He will only know he is spoiling your holiday if you tell him. Being ND doesn't mean you get to behave how you like.

Ourdearoldqueen · 01/08/2024 13:36

Getonwitit · 01/08/2024 12:41

Tell him he is being vile and ruining your holiday. Just because he is Nd it doesn't mean he is allowed to upset everyone else. He will only know he is spoiling your holiday if you tell him. Being ND doesn't mean you get to behave how you like.

Totally agree with this.

Ourdearoldqueen · 01/08/2024 13:40

One of mine would be a hermit if I let him. We have talked about this and what he totally DIDNT get was the effect that had on everyone else - his single handed veto of everything. He hadn’t joined it up - as far as he was concerned he was dealing with his own needs and everyone else’s feelings were their business, not his.

So during calm moments we have talked about how HE might feel if other people stopped him from doing what he wanted/was looking forward to, and how I can’t just leave him to it whilst he’s still a child (a teen now). He understood that this isn’t fair and so a lot of our conversations about arrangements are around fairness, as that seems to get through. But he doesn’t get to torpedo everyone else’s life, even if that causes some temporary discomfort.

CoffeeCup14 · 01/08/2024 14:18

I have two ND teenagers and I'm a single parent. The 13 year old finds being on holiday really hard. Lots of anxiety, finds other people difficult, dislikes being out of routine. Would rather be at home where it's all familiar. It sounds similar to your situation in some ways. I am really frustrated by the limitations, by not being able to enjoy myself. It's really difficult.

I'm not sure there's a solution - I've tried things like ensuring there is familiar food, reducing demands, sleeping arrangemens that will work better.

I think the other thing is to identify one or two things you want to do and do them. Make sure you get to do some things you'll enjoy, whether it's a trip out somewhere or spending a couple of hours reading in the sunshine - take time to prioritise yourself (and enable your DH to do the same).

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