Daily mail article, integration has failed in Germany. Aibu to agree with article?

[Mimififi]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=

Aibu to agree to an extent?

How am I not being Christian by sharing a DM article? It's a very important topic concerning all of Europe. Why is there this desperate desire to shut down any debate?
Do you not want better integration?
Do you think it's fair some immigrant children are unable to speak the language of their new country & their education is severely lacking. None of it is fair on society.

Your article here is the first I’ve seen about multiculturalism and the integration of people from different cultures in Germany. That’s because I don’t follow German news and haven’t seen any reporting on it from British news outlets.

I have seen a lot of articles about multiculturalism in the U.K. over the last few months though. Those articles pretty much all say multiculturalism has failed, and they are all from either the Daily Mail or the Daily Telegraph. Most of those were written or signed off by Suella Braverman.

Every single time I have read those articles, I’ve had the same thought. It’s the job of the government to manage integration and to ensure our society is working for everyone. If it is has actually ‘failed’, they clearly haven’t been effective in managing it and it is their problem to sort out.

Normally they will blame others for this failing. They always blame others for it. Usually they blame migrants or asylum seekers, who are vulnerable either because they are fleeing horrible situations in their own countries or vulnerable because of their economic situation. It is unacceptable for them to blame others for their own failings on this. Sometimes they blame Labour, which I always find a bit of a stretch. Yes, Labour didn’t always manage immigration and multiculturalism well when they were in power, but they haven’t been in power for the last 14 years, so it really is a leap to blame them.

What would you do to manage integration? You say that the situation is bad - what are your ideas on how we can improve it?

Germany's economy is tanking, that's a big reason why they're feeling fed up. That was Merkel's fault for jacking in nuclear power and making them totally reliant on Nordstream 2. So it's all been downhill since early 2022.

People rarely worry about 'immigration' and 'foreigners' when an economy's going gangbusters. But when it falters they look for people to blame. Same old story for centuries.

Mind you, you'd have thought that Germany would be a bit more careful about falling into that trap, considering what happened last time.

Why is it that whenever someone says something that someone on the left finds uncomfortable they try to shut down the debate?

I would love to have a proper, reasonable debate about immigration, integration and inclusion. But not one which is informed by a Daily Mail article which has a very clear agenda that isn't about integration and inclusion.

It would be wonderful if we could have these conversations without them being shut down with accusations of racism, but unfortunately the racists just keep on saying racist things, so what can we do?

This

Presumably any of the countries that the more militant Muslims now living in parts of Europe hail from?

If you're really worried about integration, OP, what do you think about the disgusting and unprovoked attack on a mosque in Southport last night? Do you think this kind of behaviour makes it easier for Muslim families to integrate and feel included? Have you posted about this topic this morning?

The UK and Germany are different countries and cultures, here I see a society that is doing well (I can't speak for Germany) but I do think much more planning needs to be done - and indeed careful planning so that new arrivals are properly settled, welcomed and are a productive force that adds to the nation - because failed integration is a disaster for everyone.

We need to control the numbers - yes, because with the best will in the world, too many arrivals will see them all being failed, which helps no one.

We need to control where they are housed - so integration is possible across the whole country

We need to actually start listening to each other, listening to all views and stop the silencing and the closing down of debate.

That helps absolutely no one.

We all know we have a big problem housing everyone at the moment, and we do need to pause and look after the millions that are already here and in bedsits.
That is my view.

Yes the left are already seething after the huge pushback against the vile Olympic opening ceremony. Remember they work on a policy of "No Debate" & if that fails they call people bigots & racists in a childish attempt to shut down debate.
Thankfully those days are over, the tide has turned & concern will not be silenced.

Well said.

Housing & education are huge issues here. Education especially.

Are there racist comments on this thread?

"the tide has turned,"
Do people have a script of phrases they read from when it comes to bigotry topics?
Or just parrot the phrase of the moment?!
It's all the same.

Well debate will no longer be shut down. It is perfectly reasonable to question if integration is working or failing? If it is working what needs to be stepped up & continued? If it's failing, why & what can be done?
As taxpayers we have every right to query where our money is going as ultimately we are paying for the integration & we have the right to demand it is done correctly.

😂😂👏👏

Yes, plenty of dog whistle racism, in answer to your question. And no, I will not be providing examples, just in case that is what you will be asking next.

Pot,kettle! Bigotry is a very scripted word from the left, you are all the same. Find a bit of originality if you are attempting to be clever!

I've lived in Germany for a long time. I think that the problems are similar to the UK and to many other European countries - integration doesn't always happen and it's a shame because immigration is such a huge opportunity for both sides. In Germany issues include the fact that asylum seekers can't work, sometimes for years, so they're accused of living off the state but they want to work and there is such a need for workers. Also I think there is a lot of everyday discrimination. Honestly I don't feel like it's worse than France or NL but have only lived in NL out of those. Again like other European countries and UK there is a stark difference in opinions depending on income, region people live, etc.

Given the fact that Germany took 1 million Syrians in 2015/16 and another over one million Ukrainians since the war, I feel like we are doing fairly OK, given that all the (pretty plush) social services are still running. (and also it was very expensive after reunification, basically rebuilding and reskilling the entire East of the country, so much money was needed for that). The problem is that the social state in Germany with its accompanying bureaucracy is very expensive, taxes are high and there's little money to invest (cos the government hates debt so prefers to cut back than take on more debt). Yes the trains are not great, but still more or less OK. Public infrastructure is a bit crumbly, feels like it was all built very nicely in 1987 and not much since. However the social state is taking care of people and there is not the same hatred for people on benefits like in the UK.

I live in a city with a very high migrant population (including myself), and I'd say integration works pretty well in most cases, badly in some cases. The biggest hope is when kids of migrants go through the education system they get integrated, so the more generations that have been here, the better it will get.

Yes. If you can't identify them, then you're probably part of the problem.

HTH

Just as a postscript I feel like integration has to happen long term through the children, going to nursery, then school, then the workforce, and by letting people get citizenship, then people are invested.

That sad old trope the "Daily Fail" is so tedious. Has anyone said it supported the Blackshirts in 1937 yet?

You’ve literally listed day to day life for the vast majority of immigrant parents in any country. It is difficult to learn to use a new language, and it is not possible for adults to attain native speaker fluency, despite it being pitched as some kind of benchmark against which to measure people. It is difficult to find a social network. It is difficult to understand and navigate school systems for your kids.

You've explained that you agree with what you called failed integration, and it’s really courageous of you to disclose that a family member of yours has contributed to the failure you see. It’s good to see that you’ve not been lured by the old ‘we’re not immigrants we’re expats’ rhetoric 👏

But you seem to be suggesting that she has tried, implying that others haven’t? How do you know they haven’t? What do you mean by ‘not doing ones best to adapt?’

If you mean not learning the language, not having a German social network etc, then have you considered some of the structural reasons why it may be harder for some people to do those things than it is for others? Can you think of anything which German society could do to lessen those barriers?

You yourself said that immigration works both ways, well, it doesn’t, but integration tends to be a multi-party process, I guess that’s what you meant. It is not enough for a host country to put in place things like education etc, they also have to show that they treat immigrants with dignity and respect on a day to day basis.

A huge part of the problem in Germany and other European countries is the downright xenophobic refusal of normal everyday people to do that.