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AIBU?

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Daily mail article, integration has failed in Germany. Aibu to agree with article?

483 replies

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 12:00

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=

Aibu to agree to an extent?

German refugee charity warns 'integration has FAILED'

In a bombshell interview, staff at a leading youth organisation in Germany have said the continuing influx of refugees means the system is at breaking point. They called for a 'freeze' in admissions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline&ns_campaign=1490&ns_mchannel=rss

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
TheCookieCrumblesThisWay · 31/07/2024 13:27

CantDealwithChristmas · 31/07/2024 13:02

Germany's economy is tanking, that's a big reason why they're feeling fed up. That was Merkel's fault for jacking in nuclear power and making them totally reliant on Nordstream 2. So it's all been downhill since early 2022.

People rarely worry about 'immigration' and 'foreigners' when an economy's going gangbusters. But when it falters they look for people to blame. Same old story for centuries.

Mind you, you'd have thought that Germany would be a bit more careful about falling into that trap, considering what happened last time.

@CantDealwithChristmas
Germany’s economy is not tanking. Germany’s GDP recently overtook Japan to become the world’s 3rd largest economy after the US and China. Forecast is looking good for the rest of this year and beyond after a small dip in 2023. Here’s a report from the German Central Bank:
www.bundesbank.de/en/press/press-releases/bundesbank-forecast-for-germany-german-economy-slowly-regaining-its-footing-933658#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Bundesbank's%20Forecast,December%202023%20Forecast%20for%20Germany.

CarmelaBrunella · 31/07/2024 13:27

I think Germany has done well considering the huge numbers of asylum seekers and migrants they have taken in. It's not a utopia, but probably a work in progress. They admitted millions of people (predominantly young men), so it may take years for effective integration to take place, especially as asylum seekers can't work - like here.
I think most of Europe is grappling with these problems.

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 13:30

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 13:26

You’ve literally listed day to day life for the vast majority of immigrant parents in any country. It is difficult to learn to use a new language, and it is not possible for adults to attain native speaker fluency, despite it being pitched as some kind of benchmark against which to measure people. It is difficult to find a social network. It is difficult to understand and navigate school systems for your kids.

You've explained that you agree with what you called failed integration, and it’s really courageous of you to disclose that a family member of yours has contributed to the failure you see. It’s good to see that you’ve not been lured by the old ‘we’re not immigrants we’re expats’ rhetoric 👏

But you seem to be suggesting that she has tried, implying that others haven’t? How do you know they haven’t? What do you mean by ‘not doing ones best to adapt?’

If you mean not learning the language, not having a German social network etc, then have you considered some of the structural reasons why it may be harder for some people to do those things than it is for others? Can you think of anything which German society could do to lessen those barriers?

You yourself said that immigration works both ways, well, it doesn’t, but integration tends to be a multi-party process, I guess that’s what you meant. It is not enough for a host country to put in place things like education etc, they also have to show that they treat immigrants with dignity and respect on a day to day basis.

A huge part of the problem in Germany and other European countries is the downright xenophobic refusal of normal everyday people to do that.

No @titchy replied to me "I guess your cousin has fully integrated yes"? So I replied honestly. I never implied others havn't tried, I was simply saying she has found it tough.

OP posts:
itsjustbiology · 31/07/2024 13:30

Hi OP
I am really sorry you are being piled on here. Quite frankly to have a debate about anything on here is a waste of time and you are pissing in the wind. The pearl clutching is shocking and anyone who does have something to say are far right racists.The EDL thugs, thick as mince,Islamapohobic you name it you will get it.The sheer fact that the EDL was disbanded 9 years ago has bypassed anyone who throws it at you and there is no membership list to that organization but that won;t stop them, cos its not their truth. Until this reaches the Costwolds or leafy surrey then they are all quite happy to throw the rascist crap about and tell you how awful you are. My answer is let them throw their comments until the boot is on the other foot and they are faced with the challanges other towns and cities are facing. Its bollocks but hey ho you dont get much trouble in waitrose!

BeachParty · 31/07/2024 13:31

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 13:17

Pot,kettle! Bigotry is a very scripted word from the left, you are all the same. Find a bit of originality if you are attempting to be clever!

😂
It's clear you're not here just for your "concerns" about Germany.

dottiehens · 31/07/2024 13:33

Yes, agree and thank Angela Merkel for this.

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 13:33

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 13:26

You’ve literally listed day to day life for the vast majority of immigrant parents in any country. It is difficult to learn to use a new language, and it is not possible for adults to attain native speaker fluency, despite it being pitched as some kind of benchmark against which to measure people. It is difficult to find a social network. It is difficult to understand and navigate school systems for your kids.

You've explained that you agree with what you called failed integration, and it’s really courageous of you to disclose that a family member of yours has contributed to the failure you see. It’s good to see that you’ve not been lured by the old ‘we’re not immigrants we’re expats’ rhetoric 👏

But you seem to be suggesting that she has tried, implying that others haven’t? How do you know they haven’t? What do you mean by ‘not doing ones best to adapt?’

If you mean not learning the language, not having a German social network etc, then have you considered some of the structural reasons why it may be harder for some people to do those things than it is for others? Can you think of anything which German society could do to lessen those barriers?

You yourself said that immigration works both ways, well, it doesn’t, but integration tends to be a multi-party process, I guess that’s what you meant. It is not enough for a host country to put in place things like education etc, they also have to show that they treat immigrants with dignity and respect on a day to day basis.

A huge part of the problem in Germany and other European countries is the downright xenophobic refusal of normal everyday people to do that.

I said "she's done her best to adapt"!!

I never said "not doing ones best to adapt", I said "she's done her best to adapt" in reference to my cousin.

Misquoting is not a good look.

OP posts:
Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 13:33

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 13:30

No @titchy replied to me "I guess your cousin has fully integrated yes"? So I replied honestly. I never implied others havn't tried, I was simply saying she has found it tough.

It certainly read as though you were implying others haven’t tried.

CantDealwithChristmas · 31/07/2024 13:33

TheCookieCrumblesThisWay · 31/07/2024 13:27

@CantDealwithChristmas
Germany’s economy is not tanking. Germany’s GDP recently overtook Japan to become the world’s 3rd largest economy after the US and China. Forecast is looking good for the rest of this year and beyond after a small dip in 2023. Here’s a report from the German Central Bank:
www.bundesbank.de/en/press/press-releases/bundesbank-forecast-for-germany-german-economy-slowly-regaining-its-footing-933658#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Bundesbank's%20Forecast,December%202023%20Forecast%20for%20Germany.

Oh OK. I was going by the contraction in Q2.

Well maybe integration is really failing then. Or people think it is.

BeachParty · 31/07/2024 13:34

paperrockscissors · 31/07/2024 13:03

Why is it that whenever someone says something that someone on the left finds uncomfortable they try to shut down the debate?

It's not a left versus right. 🙄
It's about not wanting to engage with and stir up racism.
NOT saying all are racists, but a lot of people are.

EasternStandard · 31/07/2024 13:34

There are a few countries where this issue is causing tension or driving up the political ladder

Imo it looks like something that will continue to grow unless politicians can think and talk about the issue

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 13:35

BeachParty · 31/07/2024 13:31

😂
It's clear you're not here just for your "concerns" about Germany.

That was a better attempt, well done you!
See what can happy when you try to expand your vocabulary rather than role out the usual limited left vocabulary of "bigotry" etc in your failed attempt to shut down discussion!

OP posts:
Saschka · 31/07/2024 13:36

Dulra · 31/07/2024 12:41

If I moved to many countries
What countries?

Yes I’m interested to know this. OP, in which countries is Christianity legally banned and expat Christians forcibly converted? Since it is “many” countries, I’m sure you’ll quickly come back with a long list for me.

JaneVtwaddle · 31/07/2024 13:37

It's an interesting article it's come from a charity with 44 centers and they work with children. They said they can't cope with keeping the immigrant children safe, and assimilation

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 13:38

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 13:33

It certainly read as though you were implying others haven’t tried.

In what way, I said my cousin has done her best to adapt which she has & still is.

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 31/07/2024 13:38

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 13:08

Yes the left are already seething after the huge pushback against the vile Olympic opening ceremony. Remember they work on a policy of "No Debate" & if that fails they call people bigots & racists in a childish attempt to shut down debate.
Thankfully those days are over, the tide has turned & concern will not be silenced.

Very interesting. "The tide has turned". How, exactly?

BeachParty · 31/07/2024 13:39

ilovesooty · 31/07/2024 13:38

Very interesting. "The tide has turned". How, exactly?

Edited

Yes, I'd be interested to know too.
How do you envisage this tide turning?
How would you like that to play out?

dottiehens · 31/07/2024 13:39

Werweisswohin · 31/07/2024 13:37

When you do not have kids you can mess with the future of the ones left behind.

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 13:40

It would be a LOT easier for ‘The Left’ to discus with people who think they are just here to shut down discussion, if those people were to ever engage in a discussion properly. As in, not being disingenuous, or gaslighting, or starting from demonstrably false premises, for example. If they won’t acknowledge that the elephant in the room, ie their xenophobia, then it’s impossible to debate. That’s why it appears as though the left don’t engage sometimes. Because it is literally SO exhausting to have to deal all the time with people who build their entire identities on Wanting To Debate, but don’t, in fact, want to debate.

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 13:41

Saschka · 31/07/2024 13:36

Yes I’m interested to know this. OP, in which countries is Christianity legally banned and expat Christians forcibly converted? Since it is “many” countries, I’m sure you’ll quickly come back with a long list for me.

https://www.opendoorsuk.org/persecution/world-watch-list/

Is 50 counteries long enough for you. There is a link there for you, read it & go educate yourself! It wasn't difficult to find, you should try Google sometime!

World Watch List

Open Doors serves persecuted Christians around the world by providing vital support, delivering resources, and providing training.

https://www.opendoorsuk.org/persecution/world-watch-list

OP posts:
TheCookieCrumblesThisWay · 31/07/2024 13:42

CantDealwithChristmas · 31/07/2024 13:33

Oh OK. I was going by the contraction in Q2.

Well maybe integration is really failing then. Or people think it is.

I think integration of recent refugees has not been handled well by the German government. If you look at Germany’s history with immigration it’s a different story. The vast majority of that has been successful. You could walk into any hospital and be treated by 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation immigrant doctors and nurses. Same with other professions and industries. Immigrants don’t just work in low level labourer roles as the stereotypical immigration story lines like to suggest.

(Caveat, this primarily applies to Western Bundesländer, former Eastern states have less of an immigration history and therefore a different socioeconomic economic makeup with other challenges like long term unemployment.)

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 13:43

BeachParty · 31/07/2024 13:39

Yes, I'd be interested to know too.
How do you envisage this tide turning?
How would you like that to play out?

People are no longer accepting no debate & are not afraid of being labelled "far right" or "bigots".

OP posts:
Saschka · 31/07/2024 13:43

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 13:41

https://www.opendoorsuk.org/persecution/world-watch-list/

Is 50 counteries long enough for you. There is a link there for you, read it & go educate yourself! It wasn't difficult to find, you should try Google sometime!

There are Catholic countries on that list… do you really think Christians are persecuted and unable to practice their religion in Mexico?

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 13:43

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 13:38

In what way, I said my cousin has done her best to adapt which she has & still is.

Well, you have pointed out that you think integration is failing. And you’ve pointed out that your cousin is part of the problem but has done her best. It kind of follows that if despite your cousin doing her best, god love her, integration is STILL failing, there may be some people who aren’t doing their best? Otherwise if everyone is doing their best, why, in your mind, is integration failing?

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