Junior doctors offered 22% pay rise

[PONZOL]

How and where will the government get the money from I wonder?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjqe82lk5g5o

Then you need to take that up with your employer. “We” have no influence on what your employer chooses to pay you.

Good news is most reasonable people don't agree with this lot. Doctors are special largely because they have a monopoly employer I.e. the NHS. As said before, many are seeing the light and doing more private work, moving into areas where they can be renumerated correctly for their work- setting their own wage.

In other healthcare systems (and I am not talking US), e.g. Australia - specialists do 1 or 2 days max in the public sector and work for themselves the rest of the time and feel well renumerated. That is the direction of travel here

Since they are too expensive and think they are special! Don't worry about paying them. Dentists saw the light a while ago

Yes and why exactly do you think there are now waiting lists longer than ever before?

Lack of staff, lack of equipment, poor retention... caused in a large part, by low pay and morale.

And mismanagement of resources and bizarre bureaucracy.

That's very obviously not junior doctors' doing. Your arguments are getting (even) weaker. More pertinently, what did you think of @mumsneedwine 's graph?

Also they already had payrises. With the exception of a period in covid private sector payrises were above public sector for the decade 2013-2022. It’s only in the past year or so that public sector have had some bigger rises. It’s really just catching public sector up after many years of low rises/wage stagnation.

I looked up the monthly rates and did a rough calculation and on average someone earning 25k in 2014 would now earn ~36k in private sector vs 32.5k in public sector. So someone in private sector is earning over 10% more at this point on average.

If you don't have enough staff buildings and equipment, service levels drop, this means the organisation just exists to "fire fight" preventative care gets forgotten... so timely interventions do not happen, the patient either dies or the treatment becomes urgent/more complex/expensive.

This isn't helped by every September, the govt throws 2 billion etc at the NHS for "winter pressures" this money just gets wasted, the NHS doubtless needs reform but it also needs to funded, per head of population, far more and demand has to be reduced through better public health, one thing would be for us all to eat less and move more!!

Either way, increasing retention levels through better pay is at least a start in trying to reverse the recent trends.

Well said

Your son could apply for posts of his choosing, in locations of his choosing, know where he's going with adequate time to find suitable accomodation, and not have to work 48 hour weeks including nights and weekends. After 6 years of uni and grafting to stay in the top 10% of her (very bright) cohort, her job location will be allocated by a random number generator. She'll then work 48 hour weeks, moving around every 4 months.....

The difficulty with the medical profession is that they think they are different from the rest of us. They aren't. They are no more skilled or qualified than the other professions: accountancy, law, architecture, etc.

😂😂😂😂

I know. Risible, isn’t it? Obviously accountants, lawyers and architects save so many lives. 🙄

Indeed. I'm in private sector and my DH is in public sector. His salary has risen 45% in the last 15yrs and mine has risen 75%. I have not been getting out-of-the-ordinary promotions, work in a traditionally low-paid industry and he has always held more senior roles than me.

Well then we have to ask why we’re accepting it? Why should it be right that the bosses get richer while the workers suffer?

Don’t moan when other people get off their backsides to complain! At least they aren’t sitting back and taking it!

Indeed. Except Humanities posts are decreasing and staff are being made redundant. He was one of 200 applicants for a substantive post this year. He moved 240 miles for it.

He works 48 hour weeks and sometimes more with teaching and research commitments. That is the only way to publish a monograph nowadays. The only chance of a job in the present climate is to have published or been accepted by a top publisher with work assessed as 4*.

44 IB points. Three year first degree (1st class, Oxford) one year Masters (Distinction), PhD in three years (Cambridge). 1 year post doc post.

I get the impression you think other careers just happen with no personal input or sacrifice.

That's a bit of a leap, considering that you know nothing about my career or those of my other three children. And that this is a thread about junior doctor t's and c's....

My DD is doing 78 hours in the next 8 days. Not optional. That's her rota.

This is a ridiculous post. Many doctors are both medics and researchers - with academic commitments including the need to publish as well as care for patients. No academic has to rotate to train. And that rotation is by pot luck. So your son gets that post 400 miles away - he gets to stay there. Medics have to rotate every 6 months, sometimes every 4 months.

Yup - that is before we get into the unsociable hours and call-outs. There is a reason it takes as long to train and is valued as much as it is by society. No offence but your son is unlikely to be saving literally hundreds of thousands of lives through out his career

And did you take into account the vast pensions accrued by public sector employees?

Imagine if there were jobs nearby, but instead of being able to apply for these, he had to be at the mercy of a completely random ranking system that is luck of the draw and doesn't take on board any other elements. To add to that, he starts work and someone less qualified than himself is earning a fair whack more for more sociable hours, less responsibility and having had less training. Gets settled in his job (this could be an hours drive from home, or it could be the other side of the country), before having to rotate after a few months so finding a new place to live more than likely and trying to establish a new support system; it's incredibly challenging.

There's a difference between moving because that's where the job is, and the pathetic and unfair allocation system JDs are put through. They can't really get a job outside of the NHS easily without completing F1 & F2, so they get away with treating doctors like this as there's not many options.

Very much worse than they used to be.

This post is embarrassing. It shows you have no idea whatsoever what junior doctors do.

I wrote and deleted a couple of responses to the post about jobs in humanities, as I couldn’t quite put my finger on what bothered me about it but this reply basically sums it up.

No they aren’t fully trained doctors! Often ask for support from the ward nurses, FY2, registrar and consultant. Often within 1st year of graduation
they do majority of the work. Writing up fluids for example, antibiotics, Oxygen ffs!
You do realise that if prescribed incorrectly this could potentially lead to death!

Sorry correction (typo error)
trained Doctors fresh out of medical school!