To want to discipline DD in this way?

[Puzzicle]

DD is 12. Yesterday we found a lot of compost all over the floor in the hallway by the back door. Way too much much to have been trodden in.

Asked DD who denied all knowledge. She'd been playing in the garden on her go kart and we could see an open bag of compost so assumed she had run over the bag and tried to bring her kart inside, dropping the compost everywhere.

She went off to her hobby and I decided to check the security camera. It shows DD opening the compost bag, running over it a few times and then grabbing a hand full of compost and flinging it in through the open door whilst laughing.

I was absolutely fuming. I confiscated her phone when she got home and wanted to take he TV from her room but DH didn't agree and stopped me. I also told her she was grounded for the rest of the week. She showed absolutely no remorse for her behaviour and said it was an accident (it most definitely was not).

So today she comes home from school and asks to go to her friend's house. I say no, and explain why. DH then comes in complaining I've told her no. We were going out later in the evening and he wanted to please her so she would behaved for her babysitter (Grandma). Anyway, she's kicking off so he stops work early, takes her out to the shops and buys her a book (and probably other stuff).

AIBU to think she should be getting consequences for her actions, not being treated? Or was my suggested punishment too harsh?

So as not to drip feed - this is a big issue with me and DH. He never wants to tell the DC off or tell them no whereas I think they need boundaries and discipline.

She deliberately damaged the compost bag.

Vandalism includes things such as graffiti which don’t usually result in permanent damage to the surface they are done on.

I see no point in counselling when you say you’ve checked out ages ago. What would be the point? Why are you still with him when you’ve checked out and he constantly undermines you? Do you fear losing your relationship with the dc because he’s Disney dad?

NTWT. sorry.

Have you shown dd the video? I would do that, and ask why she thought it was a good idea to do this. Explain it is the behaviour of a toddler, and is that how she wants to be treated - as a toddler?
I would then get her to help you in the garden, using the compost in the proper way, and getting her to do a lot of the clearing up/cleaning.

Good luck.

Your husband is the real problem here. I’m sorry to say but he’s a terrible parent (he doesn’t know how to parent) and that’s why her behaviour is so messed up and erratic.

I also agree with pp, if you haven’t shown her the footage then do so.

I haven’t read all the posts but I’m going to take a minority view that she is perhaps not ND or immature but could she be just going through some weird phase?

Does she get a chance to be silly/ messy/ do artsy play? Was she doing a science experiment or something like that? Maybe ask if she is learning about gardening in school or something? Can she do the gardening at home with you or by herself? Does she have enough independence? Is she allowed experiment with messy things without there being a huge deal about mess?

alternatively, is she trying to get your attention or trying to express her anger/ energy in some way? I would try and speak to her and assess things as you go along but maybe she is looking for connection with you or her dad? I would say give attention for positive things rather than negative, so praise or connection when she being mature, independent, making effort and ignore/ distract silly behaviours and see how that goes?

I agree with you OP and your OH is a tool.
Just cleaning it up would have been a reasonable consequence if she had simply been careless.
It was the deliberate nature of the behaviour and the lying about it afterwards that merits a more serious punishment. Grounding or taking her TV away are perfectly reasonable but probably not both.
Serious talk time. I couldn’t be with someone who undermined me like this was such an ineffectual parent.

Syou need to know and shes needs to explain WHY she did this. Self discipline is the key.

A security camera or ring doorbell outside your front door is completely normal. It’s not as if OP is putting ‘surveillance’ inside the house. Read the thread properly.

Should have made her sweep it all up….with her eyelashes 😁
seriously though, she has been rewarded for bad behaviour…really not helpful.

You have tried counselling, and have now checked out of the marriage. I am not surprised.
He has put you in an impossible position - he has to be the "nice" one, which forces you into the role of "mean" one. You didn't ask for this good cop / bad cop stuff, he has backed you into it.
Your daughter's behaviour is a reaction to the extremely damaging parenting she is receiving - not from either one of you in particular, but from the toxic combination.
If you were both completely lax, or both overly strict, it would be less than ideal, but not as bad as this screwed-up dysfunctional triangle you have going on.

Trying to get him to change won't work. He won't change. You can't change him.

Trying to change her behaviour won't work - she is already 12, the damage may well be irreparable, and you can't fix this without him also fixing it - which won't happen. He will continue undermining you at every turn, including bare-faced lying to you in front of her. It will also be massively damaging to the younger children in their turn.

The only way to break this triangle is for you to leave. Not just check out of the relationship, but actually leave and live in a different house to him.
That may sound extreme, but this is an extreme situation. You must do this if you want to salvage any kind of relationship with your daughter.

Children are quite capable of understanding that different houses have different rules - that they must behave differently in grandparents' and friends' houses. It is perfectly normal for mum to have one way of doing things in her house, and for dad to have another way in his house.
The children may at first want to be with him - why wouldn't they? But in years to come I bet you have the better relationship with them when they are adults. Children always see through their parents as they grow up.

Play the long game, build a solid relationship with her and your other children based on love, laughter, and rock-solid rules and boundaries, in your own home without him undermining you at every turn.

It's an external ring camera that covers the drive and entry doors for security. I'm not putting my family under surveillance! No cameras in the house and most of the garden isn't covered. As she was by the door she was in sight of the camera so we decided to check it to see what really went on.

She loves gardening and we often do it together and sometimes she'll do some on her own.

I've since asked her again and she said she was trying to see how high she could throw it. This still doesn't seem like normal or acceptable behaviour though.

She gets opportunities for messy stuff. She often does painting and crafts. Likes playing with slime etc

Yes that sounds like DH. He wants to be the most popular parent with them. He also makes it very clear he doesn't agree with me. "Mum says you have to clean it up" etc.

Yes she's well aware of the camera. We normally use it to keep an eye on the house when we're away, see where a delivery driver has hidden our package etc. It's never normally used to check up on what the family are doing but we were so stumped as to how it happened that we checked the footage

A few people have mentioned undefined punishment. I didn't included every tiny detail in my OP but she was told the phone was confiscated until the next morning. She didn't know about the TV as she was out when I found out what had happened. I'd wanted to take phone and TV away for the rest of the evening but DH said no to the TV so that one never happened and she didn't even know it was discussed. Instead I said she was grounded until the end of the week. Not letting her go to her friend's house was part of being grounded, not another random punishment. Unless the meaning of being grounded has changed since I was younger 🤔

The messages are mixed so she may be testing the boundary. Undermining behaviour seems to be accepted. Its all kind of subconscious but may be what is going on.

Just iterate that it's not constructive behaviour and model the solution. This needs to be cleaned up. I will show you how to get started.

Have a look at family systems therapy OP.

@Puzzicleit is rather strange that she just wanted to see how high she could throw it but kids/ pre teens and older are just plain weird sometimes. Was she bored or something? Does she have many friends? she has hobbies as you’ve said so I don’t know. I am stumped. I wonder what harsh punishment will do at this point though as it hasn’t worked so far. What about explaining to her that she can make messes with certain things in certain places (outside/ on porch for example) with permission rather than just going and opening things that aren’t hers. Give her some items that she would like do this kind of play with and let her do what she wants but only in designated places. I don’t know but I really feel like maybe she’s missing something whether that’s connection/ attention or stimulation. Either that or maybe she has ADHD but I would only suggest further investigation if she has other quirks (impulsivity-which she has potentially, inattention, excessive daydreaming, excessive talking, difficulty making friends etc) look up ADHD in girls. But tbf if she is confused about boundaries and there’s inconsistent parenting between both of you then it’s going to make her immature than if she had consistency.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/1848123094?dplnkId=08f6b7f5-6cd8-4e5e-b990-6b79935909eb&nodl=1

id reccomendtbis book @Puzzicle

also be aware that harsh punishments, although necessary sometimes, can worsen behaviour and actually lead to children having ADHD like symptoms like hyperactivity ect. Connection and boundaries are key.

OP I agree with what you did.

There are all sorts of mitigating factors; is she ND, does she do messy play, is she attention seeking etc.

And then there is just naughty and behaviour that needs addressing.

You don’t have to justify and explain every last detail, you know your child and which it is.

And yes DH is a problem.

Hubby being a plonker, I would not be having that my kid would have the remaining compost in her bed & in her clothes drawers.

I’m dramatising, yet you are the one calling a little girl a ‘feral brat’ when you next to nothing about her 🫤

You are being dramatic calling a 12 year old a “little girl”. She’ll be a teenager o her next birthday.

So “feral brat” not dramatic at all?

If that 12 yo were posting sexualised pics to Instagram, I am sure you’d be comfortable calling her a little girl then. 🫤

Her actions show she is immature for her age as well, so yes this preteen child is still a little girl.