To want to discipline DD in this way?

[Puzzicle]

DD is 12. Yesterday we found a lot of compost all over the floor in the hallway by the back door. Way too much much to have been trodden in.

Asked DD who denied all knowledge. She'd been playing in the garden on her go kart and we could see an open bag of compost so assumed she had run over the bag and tried to bring her kart inside, dropping the compost everywhere.

She went off to her hobby and I decided to check the security camera. It shows DD opening the compost bag, running over it a few times and then grabbing a hand full of compost and flinging it in through the open door whilst laughing.

I was absolutely fuming. I confiscated her phone when she got home and wanted to take he TV from her room but DH didn't agree and stopped me. I also told her she was grounded for the rest of the week. She showed absolutely no remorse for her behaviour and said it was an accident (it most definitely was not).

So today she comes home from school and asks to go to her friend's house. I say no, and explain why. DH then comes in complaining I've told her no. We were going out later in the evening and he wanted to please her so she would behaved for her babysitter (Grandma). Anyway, she's kicking off so he stops work early, takes her out to the shops and buys her a book (and probably other stuff).

AIBU to think she should be getting consequences for her actions, not being treated? Or was my suggested punishment too harsh?

So as not to drip feed - this is a big issue with me and DH. He never wants to tell the DC off or tell them no whereas I think they need boundaries and discipline.

My friends and i def had harsh punishments , we didnt go off the rails.
im glad we did.

This is why there are issues with behaviour in schools. Kids need boundaries. We are born selfish and part of parenting is socialising children to behave within a community.

Aside from the compost issue, I’d actually be more worried by the other bit of your post where DH wanted to be nice to your daughter so she’d behave for the grandma. That should be a given. I wouldn’t have been doing that for small children let alone a 12 year old. Why did he feel she needed to be a bit spoiled before going out?

100% agree with this.

And, looking at the bigger picture, this is how certain personality disorders are created.

Bringing a child up to believe they can do what they want without consequence and without the need to consider others and that they are the only person who matters does not have good outcomes in adulthood.

from what I've seen, the kids with parents that impose harsh punishments are typically the ones who rebel most and go off the rails in the teenage years.

Ive seen the opposite. Some children have quite lax parenting but remain relatively manageable through primary but once they are bigger, things spiral.

By contrast i had parents who were on the strict end and while i had degrees of teenage rebellion/risk taking it was tame compared to peers, by then it was firmly engrained that bad behaviour would not be tolerated.

Ive always been fairly firm in sticking to boundaries & imposing unpleasant consequences and my kids school reports describe their behaviour as excellent.

Did the three of you watch the CCTV of her together? If so, what were their reactions to it when faced with unarguable proof?

Sometimes I find it can be effective to have a calm round table-style discussion about behaviour, expectations etc and choose the punishment as a group, involving DC in making suggestions for what punishment would be reasonable and effective (obviously the adults get final say)- maybe this is worth a shot to get a punishment that is stuck to by all? It isn't something I do often and is usually employed where there has been repeat offending and the usual 'natural consequences' punishments haven't worked. This might be worth a go following watching the video together, more to get your DH on board more than anything else?

What happens when you have a discussion away from little ears about what kind of humans you want to raise and release into the world and how to make that happen?

FWIW, I don't think you have been unreasonable in your punishments. In our house there would be 2 sets of consequences for your OP: natural ones for the mess (cleaning and replacing the compost with pocket money), and another general set for lying (removal of a privilege such as screen time, a treat etc usually). We have always told DCs that no matter what they've done, it will always make it worse if they then lie about it.

I'm not saying that all kids that have harsh punishments will go off the rails.

Merely that all of the kids that I know who did go really off the rails grew up in houses where there were harsh punishments.

I'm not advocating for kids to be allowed to do whatever the hell they like. But I'm not convinced that inflicting arbitrary punishments that have nothing to do with the actual misdemeanor is an effective approach to parenting either. Kids need to respect their parents and see them as reasonable human beings.

Your DD is on the cusp of her teenage years and your DH’s attitude is going to cause all kinds of problems. He needs to stop jumping in to defend and protect the kids when they misbehave or you’ll all suffer the consequences of that

She’s testing to see if anything will happen. Dad clearly has no boundaries but what will mum do? Will mum just roll over and let dad have things his way? That’s what I mean by testing boundaries.

A 12 year old should know better. I wouldn’t have done this aged 8! Clearly she does not fully understand cause and effect. For such silliness a week’s grounding is more than reasonable. She needs to learn actions have consequences before you have an out of control 16 yo.

I would’ve made her clear it up and that would’ve been punishment- and maybe not going on the go-kart for a few days as well.
your dh is out of order for undermining you but your punishment was overkill as well.

discipline and punishments personally. I don't think that approach works!, really. I would have had dc clear it up and then spent time talking to them about why they did it, why it wasn't OK etc.

This is toddler/preschool parenting when they don't yet know something is wrong and haven't behaved badly deliberately. You still think that's effective for a 12 year old? A 12 year old already knows its a completely unacceptable thing to do and has behaved badly deliberately -there needs to be a consequence for intentionally bad behaviour.

I could not live like this and I would have to separate, but I would be so worried about leaving them with their dad. He sounds rrally messed up.

Does he take any accountability for his actions and how he is constantly undermining you? Would he attend some kind of parenting class? Read any literature.

Do you call him out on it every time? It sounds intolerable.

Your husband is wet and your daughter thinks there are no consequences to bad behaviour because her dad will just bail her out.

Your punishment was not too harsh. The amount of people saying it was just shows why we have so many badly behaved children in society now.

And people wonder why teachers are leaving in droves!

I think you went way over the top. Surely the consequence is she has to clean it up. Then talk to her about why she did it. No need to try and do whatever you can to hurt her.

I understand that's what you meant.

My point is that to test them, they have to exist in the first place.

Of course, she is trying to see if anything will happen. That's what I mean about trying to find them in the first place. You can't test something that doest exist.

Her parents need to understand that her behaviour is because she is still trying to find out exactly what is acceptable and what isn't.

Which is also why people are saying this would be understandable of a 3/4 year old but not a 12 year old. Because most 12 year olds would know where the basic boundaries lie. Most would have learnt where they stand in the world. She hasn't because no one has taught her.

Her sense of self is being impacted by this which could have serious long term implications and yet people are suggesting ND and taking her to the doctor to find out what is wrong.

This is damaging to her self worth because who is she if nothing she does has an impact?

I'd have removed every device, every hobby and every freedom for a the rest of that week and she would've spent every day helping clean the house.
Skirting boards, dishes, laundry, floors, toilets

Because its not just the mess. It's the massive disrespect shown to you as the person she expects to clean.

And with regards to your husband. Divorce. You've got the ick. You'll never reviver any respect you had for him.

It's very odd behaviour but I would have done a natural consequence such as she has to do some cleaning or no friends in your house for x weeks as she clearly doesn't respect it. I wouldn't reach for the phone everytime

I am the hard one in my house and dh is far softer. I sat my dh down and said we need to be on the same page with discipline - whoever gets there first lays out the punishment and the other must agree and uphold it regardless and we can discuss in private later if needed.
Now the only 'probpem' I have is he thinks they should be able to snack whenever they want like an adult and I like to say no it's dinner in half an hour etc....
If you don't tackle this with your dh you are going to have an off the rails teenager who ends up pregnant. (Ask me how I know that one!!!)

I agree there needs to be consequences and you both need to be on the same page. Throwing some compost on the carpet is quite minor, but very strange behaviour for a 12 year old to be honest. What stuck out to me was that your husband wanted to keep her “happy” so she would “behave” for her babysitter, her grandmother. She’s 12! Would she really not “behave” for her grandmother??

I second @SkankingWombat she’s 12 not which is old enough to sit down and talk about the action and the consequence. She can explain what happened and why, why it’s not acceptable, and you can agree a consequence together.

She’s also old enough to agree basic family rules like tidy up after yourself, brush your teeth every day, speak to each other with kindness, always tell the truth etc etc.

That would take away the image your DH is creating where you are a shouting ogre the kids need protecting from.

i would be very very annoyed your DH is making you out to be someone to be lied to and defended against. It’s really unfair and if he has a problem he can talk to you about it.

This sounds like a very tricky situation. I understand he thinks he is doing what's best. But he has to think if her behaviour continues or gets worse what she will be like 16 plus.
Especially as you won't have any control at that point.
And she obviously doesn't respect you now so definitely won't respect your influence when over 15/16 .
I get kids mess about and may find chucking compost funny. But not in to the house. She must have thought that no consequences would happen .

LOL of course you need to bloody remember you’re only getting one side of the story on ANY mumsnet thread. How ridiculous to say I can’t engage because I accept there’s more to the story than just what the OP says!!!!

She sounds concerningly immature for a 12 year old. What is she like at school? With friends? Can she manage things like a short trip into town with her friends on a Saturday? or are you not able to trust her to manage this.
My mum would occasionally babysit when mine were around this age (purely because we needed an adult in the house) but in reality it was them looking after her. Making her sandwiches, hot drinks and sorting the TV remote. I can't imagine a 12 year old "playing up" for Grannie like this.

I'd sit her down, tell her that her behaviour is immature and that she needs to stop acting like a 3 year old. As for consequences, she would have cleaned up the mess and missed her evening activity but I've never been one for arbitrary punishments, (like grounding for a set number of days or confiscating items) I think it's more effective to talk things through.
As for your DH, the man is a prick.