To want to discipline DD in this way?

[Puzzicle]

DD is 12. Yesterday we found a lot of compost all over the floor in the hallway by the back door. Way too much much to have been trodden in.

Asked DD who denied all knowledge. She'd been playing in the garden on her go kart and we could see an open bag of compost so assumed she had run over the bag and tried to bring her kart inside, dropping the compost everywhere.

She went off to her hobby and I decided to check the security camera. It shows DD opening the compost bag, running over it a few times and then grabbing a hand full of compost and flinging it in through the open door whilst laughing.

I was absolutely fuming. I confiscated her phone when she got home and wanted to take he TV from her room but DH didn't agree and stopped me. I also told her she was grounded for the rest of the week. She showed absolutely no remorse for her behaviour and said it was an accident (it most definitely was not).

So today she comes home from school and asks to go to her friend's house. I say no, and explain why. DH then comes in complaining I've told her no. We were going out later in the evening and he wanted to please her so she would behaved for her babysitter (Grandma). Anyway, she's kicking off so he stops work early, takes her out to the shops and buys her a book (and probably other stuff).

AIBU to think she should be getting consequences for her actions, not being treated? Or was my suggested punishment too harsh?

So as not to drip feed - this is a big issue with me and DH. He never wants to tell the DC off or tell them no whereas I think they need boundaries and discipline.

I think @BagFullOfNoodles has hit the nail on the head. His mum was trying to protect him from his dad. Now he’s doing the same, not that your dd needs protecting from you, but dh is repeating what he knows.
I wonder if the punishments he used to get were even worse than the slipper.

I wonder if this is less about him not wanting to discipline the dc and more about him wanting to form a unit / us vs you (i.e. he and the dc against you).

I wonder what he’s saying to the dc when you’re not there.

The best thing for dc might be if you and dh split.

Seriously? You’ve just read his father abused him and that’s your conclusion. Horrible.

Are you shouty or furious, honestly?

Your DH is behaving the way that I used to with my ex-H. Because I couldn’t handle his anger and stomping about, and I wanted to protect the DC from it as it was just too much. He would definitely have said I was too soft as well, and been snatching TVs and making up punishments in anger.

Do you think that your DD has resentment against you for any reason?

I think it's a reasonable punishment for the act. Your husband sounds terrible! He's enabling the behaviour

This is really unusual behaviour and a sign that she is extremely angry with both/or one of you or very upset about something.If it isn’t ND or a personality disorder then there is another problem. Children do not behave like this when they are by themselves because they think it will be fun. They don’t do it because there aren’t strict consequences either. In the same way that you wouldn’t just chuck a bag of compost around when you were alone. She probably needs to see a counsellor who specialises in working with children and adolescents.

I think it’s more horrible if you expect OP to stay with him when he constantly undermines her and is turning the children against her.

She’s behaving like this because she knows there will be no consequences. She needs boundaries, not a counsellor.

There’s obviously an underlying issue. And TBH I don’t think OP is giving us the full story. She’s wanted to implement multiple punishments that aren’t related to the original “crime” of her child. I suspect she does get a bit shouty.

This is only one side of the story. You need to remember that. Often there’s 3 sides as the saying goes.

Personality disorder in a 12 year old!?! That's ridiculous.

Behaviour is communication, you're right that she is probably angry or upset, or trying to evoke a certain reaction from her parents. I wondered if she purposely misbehaves to garner her father's display of support and treats.

Family therapy would be useful.

Does he see the way you discipline a criticism of him and indirectly his mum? If she parents this way and he turned out ok then it must be the ‘right way’. When you say it isn’t- you’re saying his mum is wrong and he’s not a good person/turned out well. Is he hyper sensitive about people being critical about his mum from childhood?

‘You need to remember that’?! We only ever get the OP’s side on MN, the husband or dd is not likely to pop up here. If you can’t accept that there’s no point engaging with the thread.

I'd be furious aswell. She did it on purpose. That's not acceptable for a 12 year old. You dh is making her this way by pandering to her. At 12! She shouldn't have to be fussed over so she behaves for a babysitter. His ruining her.

This is why kids have no respect these days and everything's gone to shit in schools. There is no other reason for this than bad behaviour. She's done it because she can. Simple. There's no consequence. These days there's always an excuse. Counselling blah blah. Autism blah blah. No they need rules and boundaries they need parents to be parents. The kids should not be In charge. The world has gone mad

I would want to try and find some insight into why she did it- do you have any ideas? Is there any opportunity to ask her? Does your dp have any thoughts?

Your DC is obviously copying her dad. She’s been brought up (by him) to not understand consequences, to not acknowledge other’s upset, and to not have to fix mistakes or messes she makes. He’s spoiling her - and I do mean spoiling her character. She seems immature, selfish, uncaring and untruthful.

I think you all need some counselling and your DH needs some parenting classes and some home truths. What he’s doing will make her self-centred and unkind as an adult. How many friends does he think she’ll have? How many partners?

indulging children and having no boundaries for them isn’t loving them. It’s failing them.

Dear OP,

I'm so sorry for you. The biggest issue you have to deal with is your husband. Every time he covers for your DD he harms her: he's telling her that she can do whatever she wants to because he will be there to cover for her. And it only triggers you to want to punish her even harder; you're the "bad guy" but nobody listens to you anyway because DH and DD have got their united front.

This is how you create a sociopath and I'm not exaggerating. Do you think that DH would listen to a pediatrician explaining to him that boundaries and rules are necessary for a child? That it makes them feel secure and even if it makes him feel uncomfortable his love for his DD should be his guide and not his own conflicting feelings about boundaries. He is setting her up for failure in life through his misguided belief about what love is about.

I feel for your DD. Ofcourse she's acting out. She is screaming at you both to protect her by instauring boundaries and rules so she can feel secure. You need to see a professional (pediatrician/ child psychologist) who can explain all this to both of you (you got it obviously, but if he gets it too you won't be tempted to "overreact" to compensate for his lack of reaction). And your husband needs to see a psychologist asap to deal with his childhood traumas in order to become the loving father figure your DD needs to develop in a healthy way.

This.

I suspect this has zero to do with you and everything to do with how he feels about his childhood and his instinctive reactions from it.

This is what happens to people, most of us are products of our childhood and our interpretation of how it was. He's programmed to parent that way and if he wants to change it, he'll need to seek help.

This has been an insightful post for me as we have elements of this dynamic in our home too.

Your DH and you need to be more in agreement. That's the problem not your DD. Yes she behaved badly and lied. But your reaction was over the top. But your DH was very wrong to buy her the book. That would have annoyed me even more than the compost. I would be inclined not to do her any favours like lifts for a couple of weeks and say ask your Dad.

Given his background, I wonder if he’s responding to the emotions behind your punishments, rather than the specifics of punishment itself.

@BifurBofurBombur @whyhavetheygotsomany why is she doing it? She is twelve, not two. Why would a twelve year open a bag of compost and spread it around the hall for fun? They wouldn’t find that any more fun than an adult. It is actually quite a faff to do that and she will get compost all over her hands. It isn’t like she is doing something with an obvious motivation like sneaking sweets or gaming. There will be a reason.

The most important thing is understanding what's going on with her, rather than arguing with your DH.

Yes, the reason is she has no boundaries. Have you even read the thread? The father lies to the mother in front of the children, for even little things like saying they’ve brushed their teeth when they haven’t.

What does he say when you have a conversation about this?

At the moment, what he is doing is people pleasing with his own children. They are never going to respect him and it won't be their fault per se. Its how he's taught them to regard him.

He can't protect them from the consequences to their actions forever. What is she like at school?

As others have said, children need boundaries to feel safe and thrive.

I agree. I would even argue that your husband is the source of this behavior. The worst she acts the more he rewards her, because he fears her acting badly at more inconvenient times.

You could leave your husband to deal with it all, including cleaning up the mess she makes. He is spoiling her, so he can deal with the consequences.

But honestly, this is not looking good for either the relationship or your daughter's future. She won't learn to cope with real live this way.