To want to discipline DD in this way?

[Puzzicle]

DD is 12. Yesterday we found a lot of compost all over the floor in the hallway by the back door. Way too much much to have been trodden in.

Asked DD who denied all knowledge. She'd been playing in the garden on her go kart and we could see an open bag of compost so assumed she had run over the bag and tried to bring her kart inside, dropping the compost everywhere.

She went off to her hobby and I decided to check the security camera. It shows DD opening the compost bag, running over it a few times and then grabbing a hand full of compost and flinging it in through the open door whilst laughing.

I was absolutely fuming. I confiscated her phone when she got home and wanted to take he TV from her room but DH didn't agree and stopped me. I also told her she was grounded for the rest of the week. She showed absolutely no remorse for her behaviour and said it was an accident (it most definitely was not).

So today she comes home from school and asks to go to her friend's house. I say no, and explain why. DH then comes in complaining I've told her no. We were going out later in the evening and he wanted to please her so she would behaved for her babysitter (Grandma). Anyway, she's kicking off so he stops work early, takes her out to the shops and buys her a book (and probably other stuff).

AIBU to think she should be getting consequences for her actions, not being treated? Or was my suggested punishment too harsh?

So as not to drip feed - this is a big issue with me and DH. He never wants to tell the DC off or tell them no whereas I think they need boundaries and discipline.

@Luio

counselling is NOT a substitute for decent parenting (which involves boundaries)

There is putting your children first when in a situation where you could only save a dc or a dh and there's putting them first when they are little and hungry right now and only one something is ready, but your husband saying his dc have done their teeth when they haven't because he wants to be cool dad rather than a loving, caring, nurturing , sensible dad is ridiculous.

They won't change so you have to.

12 is quite old to behave like this! You're right she needs to realise it wasn't acceptable- I would have made her clean it up as a punishment though so she could understand why it was a silly thing to do

I think you need to book him in parenting classes. Both go but it’s really for him as you are already parenting.

Sounds like you'd put the daughter on trial. Amongst others this is most unusual if not frankly strange ...
I see the prison guard parents are out in force on the thread also.

A bit of dirt on the floor is not vandalism. Vandalism requires destruction, something more serious than what can be swept away with a broom and mop.

I think the multiple punishments are collectively far too harsh, capricious and there is no sense from OP whether further punishments are pending.

Of cluster it’s vandalism. She opened the compost bag, deliberately ran over it a few times in her go kart, then picked up a handful of dirt into th3 house while laughing. Then she lied to her mother about it. What else would you call it?

Your husband is an idiot and he's doing your daughter no favours whatsoever.

Ask him if he actually wants her to grow into a likeable, respectful adult or not?

She's playing you both like a fiddle.

I think you need to set up the counseling extremely quickly. The first thing the counselor needs to see is this Post from you. You will never be able to state this any better.

You need to have a conversation with your husband and ask him if he thinks you will abuse your children like his father did him? Setting reasonable boundaries on behavior is not abuse and he needs to understand that. The person being abused in this relationship is you. You are also being prevented from having a normal parental relationship with your children and that could cause them harm.

My children's father is like this. He wants to be liked and is competititive about it - I used to say he always wanted to be the most popular person in the room and where was that supposed to leave me? He would never discipline voluntarily and when I insisted on it (nothing heavy, to be clear, just normal boundaries) he would undermine both me and them by ostentatiously telling the kids "mum's right" in sorrowful tones. It was like a great big wink, making it clear he disagreed with me, but at the same time they never felt like he had their back either. There were other issues in the relationship, but it was the effect all this was having on my relationship with my own children that was the catalyst to leave.

In his case - if it rings any bells and helps you develop some insight - there was a severe case of sibling rivalry. He was the elder of two and was an only child for quite some time. He was insanely jealous of his younger sibling and intensely competitive. She reciprocated by being competitive back and is much more successful then him, so he feels both desperate to be liked and certain that he will disappoint and needs to make up for that somehow. After we split up, I encouraged him to do therapy and he did for a bit but doesn't really seem to see any of this. Fortunately it's not my problem anymore. His father was also a harsh disciplinarian fwiw, @Puzzicle.

I hope you get to the bottom of your DD's behaviour, which seems provocative, to put it mildly. Did she know about the camera?

It’s just making a mess. And if this girl has ADHD, would be due to the lack of impulse control that comes with the disability. The lying is no doubt due to fear of the OP’s penchant for overly harsh and cruelly open ended punishments that will land for days or weeks afterwards.

Vandalism requires actual damage or destruction of property.
Calling a bit of compost on the floor “vandalism” is excessive.

Again. This thread is so insightful to understanding why educators are breaking down and children are as horrific as they are.

She opened the compost bag and deliberately drove her go kart over it, therefore damaging it (the bag). Ergo vandalism.

What a single use plastic bag was “vandalised” by being opened? That is a stretch to the moon and back.

Give over 🙄

Editing because quoted wrong post. This was in response to
”Again. This thread is so insightful to understanding why educators are breaking down and children are as horrific as they are.”

Quite. When a child is overly punished for a minor incident, it creates a situation where a child has nothing to lose. Consider the fact the DD has

1. had her phone confiscated for an indefinite period lasting days at the least
2. is grounded for “the rest of her week”
3. has had a meet up with a friend cancelled
4. OP also wants to take away the TV
5. OP thinks buying a book is a “reward” when it is likely the DH was thinking of something the DD could do while grounded that was productive. Buying books isn’t a treat, it is part of educating your child.

When a child feels they have nothing to lose, that no matter how minor the infraction they are going to suffer heavy consequences their behaviour gets worse, not better. The saying in for a Penny, in for a pound applies to the dynamic the OP is fostering.

Sure, I’m off to vandalise my bag of compost in the garden to repot a few plants. Ttfn

Being grounded naturally means you miss meet ups and lose privileges. That's it.

You're just dramatising it.

No. Kids are behaving like feral brats because they know there are no consequences.

YANBU.
Children need consequences and boundaries. They also need to carry out age appropriate chores to learn to prepare for adulthood and be self sufficient, independent.
Me and DP might not 100% percent agree on punishments but we always back each other up and show a united front.
Your asks (that they tidy after themselves) or punishments/ consequences (loss of phone, grounding) are perfectly normal and couldn't be described as abusive or cruel by any stretch of the imagination.
I think that maybe DP needs to explore why he feels the need to "shield" the children from any inconvenience, frustration or punishment. Does he want to be seen as the "good guy"? Does he think they will love him less? Does seeing his child discommoded in some way cause him anxiety/ discomfort and he is trying to soothe himself by cancelling the punishment or doing the chore?

Your husband is the problem here
Your children will grow up spoilt brats because of him.
When they're adults they will make a mess in their own homes and just expect their partner to clear it up.
After 12 years of him undermining you I'd have divorced him by now sorry.

I’m sorry but this is incredibly odd behaviour from a 12 year old. Disturbing. I’m sorry but something is very wrong there.

"I decided to check the security camera."

This is red flag for me

Even a normal adult would do crazy things if you put them under 24/7 surveillance at home

I think the wider issue here is that you and your DH need to resolve your differences in parenting - perhaps counselling can help you both. I think you mainly have a DH issue. That being said, I agree with other posters that your daughters behaviour is very strange for a 12 year old. It developmentally inappropriate. I think you need to be curious about this behaviour as it it is odd.

Christ almighty…