To want to discipline DD in this way?

[Puzzicle]

DD is 12. Yesterday we found a lot of compost all over the floor in the hallway by the back door. Way too much much to have been trodden in.

Asked DD who denied all knowledge. She'd been playing in the garden on her go kart and we could see an open bag of compost so assumed she had run over the bag and tried to bring her kart inside, dropping the compost everywhere.

She went off to her hobby and I decided to check the security camera. It shows DD opening the compost bag, running over it a few times and then grabbing a hand full of compost and flinging it in through the open door whilst laughing.

I was absolutely fuming. I confiscated her phone when she got home and wanted to take he TV from her room but DH didn't agree and stopped me. I also told her she was grounded for the rest of the week. She showed absolutely no remorse for her behaviour and said it was an accident (it most definitely was not).

So today she comes home from school and asks to go to her friend's house. I say no, and explain why. DH then comes in complaining I've told her no. We were going out later in the evening and he wanted to please her so she would behaved for her babysitter (Grandma). Anyway, she's kicking off so he stops work early, takes her out to the shops and buys her a book (and probably other stuff).

AIBU to think she should be getting consequences for her actions, not being treated? Or was my suggested punishment too harsh?

So as not to drip feed - this is a big issue with me and DH. He never wants to tell the DC off or tell them no whereas I think they need boundaries and discipline.

This is a tricky one, as I wouldn't parent like either of you. Random unpleasant things happening are not consequences of bad behaviour, and your DH jumping in so much suggests you spend a lot of time with the kids "in trouble" or possibly yelling? Meanwhile letting kids run riot is certainly not the answer; even my 6yo knows to clean up if he drops mess, and throwing compost is really weird behaviour.

Have you tried talking to the kids when they do something? Show the video and say "I feel irritated that you wasted our compost and deliberately made a mess, and I'm disappointed that you lied to me. Can you explain what was going through your mind here? How are you going to make amends for this?" Then agree on a suitable activity like weeding for 2 afternoons to make up for the mess.

' he wanted to please her so she would behaved for her babysitter (Grandma).'

At 12 years old it is a given that you will behave for and respect your babysitter, and your Grandma. This is bizarre behaviour.

Grounding is an ineffective, m old fashioned punishment OP, as you are finding out. It is hard to sustain and causes as much inconvenience for the parent as the child. But yes she does need boundaries.

Op I think your biggest mistake is coming here looking for advice. I can't believe the things ppl are saying to you. Asking if dd is nd and acting like this is the weirdest story they've ever heard because the child is 12 and not 3. Honestly the ppl here are far more immature then your dd. What a jump from a prank gone wrong to saying dd has development issues. Op. Your dd is 12 and they do silly things like this because they lack maturity or understanding of their actions being wrong. You are right to take the phone away and limit a play date and your dh should not be undermining you by taking out dd to buy her gifts . It gives mixed messages. When putting in consequences you don't need to do 100 things. You don't need to take the phone and the TV and limit play dates and so on and on.. stick to one or two age related consequences which can also include resolving what ever it is that they have done. You need to speak to your hubby about this issue as well. Maybe find a good link to parenting sites that discuss how parents should be a team and send him that so he can see for himself .

Sounds like he's absolutely terrified of people being told off in any way whatsoever.

Is this the way we do it, these days? Boundaries and negotiation?
My Father's response would have been 'Get that cleaned up!'
(unfortunately followed by 'Don't think you are leaving that for your Mother!)
Sent to bed if we were really naughty.

I admire your perseverance to stay within a family. It must be absolutely soul destroying to watch the kind hearted man you married literally sabotage every ounce of a relationship with your children.

In a few years time your children will be hormonal teenagers. What happens when one rages at the other now? Are there consequences or are they at risk of attacking each other and causing quite significant harm?

If your children feel quite insecure because they know no boundaries, how will your DH react when they attempt new boundaries such as sexualized/promiscuous behaviour resulting in a teenage pregnancy or getting blind drunk in dangerous situations to see if anyone will rescue them like their dad does now?

Has your children ever got so overwhelmed by their lack of consistency at home that it results in out bursts of violence? How do you protect yourself and others when they become older and stronger and attack you/others?

Your DH sounds like he would do nothing illegal because of the consequences laid out by his father. Whilst the slipper is not an acceptable way of disciplining children these days, it was a common practice 30 years ago or more. Your children do not have anything.

What did they think of school? Do they excell because of their safe boundaries or do they really struggle with the concept of no means no else where too?

By the way, my DH is a consequences person (though not a shouter) and I'm a "natural consequence (like cleaning up mess, losing a toy if it's broken etc) and then see if we can understand why it happened" person. But we always have each other's backs with our kid. Classic example: Dad says no TV because she did X, she'll come in to me and report this, I'll give her a cuddle and say "well, Daddy did warn you". It's not hard.

It shows DD opening the compost bag, running over it a few times and then grabbing a hand full of compost and flinging it in through the open door whilst laughing

She showed absolutely no remorse and said it was an accident

If one of mine had done this at 12you I'd be worried they'd had a bang on the head, and want to find out what was going on for them, rather than take away their TV. If they had one.

Unrelated consequences don't work. They just drive the behaviour elsewhere. Taking away the TV might be a consequence for not being mature enough to know it has to be switched off after x time and having it on at 2am therefore being too tired to concentrate at school, or watching programmes that weren't age appropriate etc. The TV in your room isn't working for you right now because of XYZ reason, so I'm going to to keep it in the loft for a while and then we can talk about when it might be a good time to bring it back down.

Not, you threw soil all over the hall carpet and laughed and then made up a story about how it got there, so I'm going to confiscate your TV.

Can you feel the difference? So can she. I'd personally be really concerned there was something going on for her that she's unable to tell you about, all behaviour has a feeling or a need at it's root, and coming down like an inconsistent ton of bricks as parents you're not keeping the lines of communication open, or presenting yourself as a safe supportive confindant, which is the only place you'll get her to follow your lead through her teens from. Look up the meaning of the word Discipline, it comes from disciple, to follow. Give her something worth following.

What I mean is, I think you can have different approaches in parenting and it can be quite healthy for them to see that as long as each of you is consistent about how you deal with things, and you agree on standards of behaviour. You can back each other up without being the same kind of parent. But what you're describing is really dysfunctional and emotionally unsafe. He obviously thinks he has to be liked by them at all costs, but kids push boundaries partly to learn the rules from us and partly to feel safe when the boundaries are held by their parents. I wonder if that explains your DD's compost incident - she's desperately trying to feel for a boundary.

' I wonder if that explains your DD's compost incident - she's desperately trying to feel for a boundary.'

Or it was just naughtiness totally inappropriate for her age.

Sorry OP, but he sounds like a complete moron.
How could you have any respect for him.
He's a liar who have taught his children to lie, have zero respect for either of you and that their are no boundaries to how they must behave.
That is child neglect and so selfish.
What he wants comes first.
He is so selfish.
He certainly doesn't love you.
He certainly doesn't love his children.
His sole focus is on meeting HIS fxxked up needs.
Certainly not what is best for his children.
You have a complete shit show of the teen years ahead of you, a real shit show.
How would splitting look?
I would be looking at it and protecting yourself.
He is unlikely to change.
It is completely understandable that you have checked out.

What would have happened if you had followed through with your original choice of discipline?

If you had removed her TV whilst your DH had disagreed with you?

Have you continued to just do as you feel best with him buzzing around saying 'it's an accident' etc?

If he comes in and your child is being ordered by you to clear up, he then undermines you by doing it for them and they walk off, do you bring them back and ask them to work with DH to clean up? Would that work in any way? It might result in a lot of push back by everyone but by how far?

If you had removed her phone, switched it off (and put it in your car, so you just have the car key to keep hold of) until you think is reasonable, what would your DH do then? Would he continue to get involved and try anything to get your child's phone back or would he give up etc?

Sounds like a big fight to have follow through and consequences but wonder if it does ever come to this?

What happens when they upset/miss behave round your DH and he says no... do you ever return the favour with 'it's an accident' statement etc?

Agree with this.

Do you actually want to be in this OP? Wouldn’t it be easier to leave? You said things are so much more settled without him.

Id tell him he has to get therapy to change his behaviour, or he can leave, as it is damaging the kids.

If OP leaves her DH, the kids will choose to stay with him rather than her, because there are no boundaries and only treats. It would be more effective to come up with a middle ground where they agree on how to co-parent while still together.

And you need to have much stronger boundaries. He interrupts you while dealing with the kids? Tell him calmly ‘I am dealing with this, please stop.’ If he won’t, ask him to leave as he is not respecting you.

It is a strange thing for a 12 year old to do.
Could it be a way for her to get attention from dad? She knows you’ll want to punish her ( and rightly so) but dad will fly to her rescue? Not a healthy way for her to view men, especially going into teenage years.
And she’s also putting a wedge between you and your husband? Might not be as manipulative as that but it’s such a childish thing for a 12 year old to do.

However you label behaviour, you'll manage it better if you understand why it's happening.

Your husband sounds really wet

It's almost as though your DH is terrified of you telling off the kids; constantly hovering and mithering.

Could be because when he did something naughty as a child, he got a bollocking/slippered by his DF and he witnessed his DM covering for him to avoid any future bollockings so feels that would work for his children but all it's doing is a) piss you off for being undermined and b) giving your kids a free license to do anything they want cos "daddy will sort it out".

There's a whole new fresh hell coming your/his way when they become teenagers if he maintains this behaviour.

It sounds like you DH is terrified of your DC having any kind of punishment or consequence, presumably due to his own trauma.

He needs to unpick that and understand that setting boundaries and (logical) consequences and supporting your DC to look after themselves are all healthy elements of being a good, loving, parent.

I do think removing all screens for that act is a bit bizarre (but then my DC don't have screens in their rooms or smart phones...). I'd want to try to understand why DD did it in the first place. And if she couldn't clean up the mess I'd get her to clean up something else taking the equivalent time.

A consequence being inconvenient for you as a parent isn't a good reason not to give it. The consequences should never impact others (eg siblings), but as parents, discipline is our responsibility and labour to see through, even if it is horribly inconvenient to enforce.
I'm sure grounding me as a child was inconvenient for my DM too, as it is easier to get on with chores without a bored DC moping about the house, but she never showed it and it firmly reinforced the boundaries of acceptable behaviour - she would even add days on for arguing back and complaining how unfair it was 😂 It is an old-fashioned punishment only in so far as being ineffectual for many as DCs don't generally play out any more, but would be a good choice still for those lucky enough to live in an area where DCs still play in the street or regularly go out to meet friends.

You're right to punish but phone, TV and grounding is OTT I think. The phone for 48 hours would suffice.

I can imagine it's the deceit that got to you, as it would me. She must be very confused with the mixed messages.

Her behaviour was very odd, OP.

BUT your problem here isn't your dd, it's your DH. He's completely undermining you. No wonder she is learning to be spiteful like that.

I think you massively need to go on a summit with him and talk about this - take a night or two away at a spa hotel, treat yourselves, and then you can take your time to explain to him what his lack of boundaries is going to do to her.

I would also suggest couples therapy so you can come together better on these issues.

This is only going to get worse without changing his parenting significantly. He must must must back you up.

She needs her Dad to step up and be a parent, not be frightened of upsetting her all the time. Kind, loving but firm boundaries are essential parenting.

You are right to punish the behaviour. I reckon that immediate punishment - clear & clean it up herself etc is better than long lasting though. Means they can (hopefully) learn and you can all move on. Also why the flip does a 12 yo have/need a tv in their room?!… I know lots do, it just really doesn’t benefit family dynamics in a healthy way… Your DH problem needs fixing first though I suppose….