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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want to discipline DD in this way?

223 replies

Puzzicle · 03/07/2024 00:29

DD is 12. Yesterday we found a lot of compost all over the floor in the hallway by the back door. Way too much much to have been trodden in.

Asked DD who denied all knowledge. She'd been playing in the garden on her go kart and we could see an open bag of compost so assumed she had run over the bag and tried to bring her kart inside, dropping the compost everywhere.

She went off to her hobby and I decided to check the security camera. It shows DD opening the compost bag, running over it a few times and then grabbing a hand full of compost and flinging it in through the open door whilst laughing.

I was absolutely fuming. I confiscated her phone when she got home and wanted to take he TV from her room but DH didn't agree and stopped me. I also told her she was grounded for the rest of the week. She showed absolutely no remorse for her behaviour and said it was an accident (it most definitely was not).

So today she comes home from school and asks to go to her friend's house. I say no, and explain why. DH then comes in complaining I've told her no. We were going out later in the evening and he wanted to please her so she would behaved for her babysitter (Grandma). Anyway, she's kicking off so he stops work early, takes her out to the shops and buys her a book (and probably other stuff).

AIBU to think she should be getting consequences for her actions, not being treated? Or was my suggested punishment too harsh?

So as not to drip feed - this is a big issue with me and DH. He never wants to tell the DC off or tell them no whereas I think they need boundaries and discipline.

OP posts:
Tillievanilly · 03/07/2024 07:06

I think one punishment is enough. You don’t need to keep punishing her in my opinion. Maybe she got over excited and it got out of hand. My nd child can be like this.

OrlandointheWilderness · 03/07/2024 07:07

Holy cow, this kid is running rings round you! She purposely opened a bag of compost and chucked it in your house! I'd be removing her tv for an agreed period and grounding her for a week, and she would be doing some cleaning. NO bloody treats! All he is doing is raising his children to be horrible adults.

Luio · 03/07/2024 07:09

@BifurBofurBombur I think you misunderstood my post. I am saying that 12yr olds (and adults) will do fun things when they don’t have boundaries(avoid homework, stay out with their friends, eat sweets etc) but they don’t generally do unpleasant things unless they are protesting, hurt, angry. Unless OP finds out what the cause is, punishment won’t solve it. Lack of boundaries in itself might be upsetting her but unlikely to cause that much resentment.

CurlewKate · 03/07/2024 07:12

@BifurBofurBombur "Yes, the reason is she has no boundaries. Have you even read the thread? The father lies to the mother in front of the children, for even little things like saying they’ve brushed their teeth when they haven’t."

That could explain challenging behaviour. But why did she do this particular bizarre thing? I would want to know that in a 12 year old.

CurlewKate · 03/07/2024 07:14

Sorry @Luio. I agree with you!
Didn't mean to jump in like that.

BifurBofurBombur · 03/07/2024 07:15

Luio · 03/07/2024 07:09

@BifurBofurBombur I think you misunderstood my post. I am saying that 12yr olds (and adults) will do fun things when they don’t have boundaries(avoid homework, stay out with their friends, eat sweets etc) but they don’t generally do unpleasant things unless they are protesting, hurt, angry. Unless OP finds out what the cause is, punishment won’t solve it. Lack of boundaries in itself might be upsetting her but unlikely to cause that much resentment.

To kids messing around with dirt IS fun.

What’s not fun is cleaning it up.

And dd knows she won’t have to clean it up because her father will just do it.

TheTartfulLodger · 03/07/2024 07:15

Well you clearly recognise that your husband is the problem. He is raising monsters here who will become the sort of grown ups people are not going to like or want to be around. But it has gone on so long that if you do now instil boundaries and consequences they will resist and run to daddy and manipulate him because he always lets them get away with it. I think insist counselling again but this time focus on this and demand that he stops interfering and constantly undermining you like this because it is not just the children who are showing no respect for you, he isn't either.

At the same time your punishments need to be consistent and at the moment they are all over the place. She did one thing but you wanted three consequences, no phone, no television and grounded. Pick one and stick to it.

MrsAllYours · 03/07/2024 07:18

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Previously banned poster.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 03/07/2024 07:19

She'd been playing in the garden on her go kart and we could see an open bag of compost so assumed she had run over the bag and tried to bring her kart inside

It shows DD opening the compost bag, running over it a few times and then grabbing a hand full of compost and flinging it in through the open door whilst laughing.

I'm staggered that this child is 12. This sounds more like something I'd expect from a 3 or 4 year old.

CollyBobble · 03/07/2024 07:20

I imagine that you are the one that does the housework so the deliberate trashing only the home with compost soil is aimed at you.

It's an act of attacking you and is spiteful and the laughter indicates contempt and the pleasure gained at you having to clear it up.

It's very disturbing behaviour given that it was not done in temper.

Then there is your husband who is undermining you and rewarding g her lack of respect for you.

You and your husband are good cop bad cop in her eyes and she's playing up to it.

I would be very concerned that there will be further incidents of destructive and spiteful behaviour aimed at you.

As she approaches 13, hormones may start coming into play and she may become even more hostile towards you.

I'd think about getting her some form of counselling and I'd be having a proper talk with your husband at him creating a monster by rewarding her and being soft on her.

Sadly, I would also think about securing your personal items that are of sentimental value or expensive such as jewellery so that she can't break or destroy anything of high regard as her behaviour may escalate to further acts of spite against you. Photographs may also be targeted.

timetobegin · 03/07/2024 07:20

I think you need to extend and concentrate on “consequences”. To me it sounds like you all need to think about the consequences both natural and imposed on your situation.

DanielGault · 03/07/2024 07:23

BifurBofurBombur · 03/07/2024 07:15

To kids messing around with dirt IS fun.

What’s not fun is cleaning it up.

And dd knows she won’t have to clean it up because her father will just do it.

Not 12 year old though really. That's quite unusual I would think.

Stressfordays · 03/07/2024 07:26

What bizarre behaviour for a 12 year old? Isn't that more toddler behaviour? And punishments for 12 year olds don't have to be 'natural consequences', surely a common punishment for that age is removing tech and grounding? I have an 11 year old and if he misbehaves in any way, my go to is removing his Xbox because that's what means the most to him. It now really only ever takes a warning of tech going if he starts playing up.

GreyCarpet · 03/07/2024 07:27

For those suggesting there is something bigger going on with the daughter, there could be of course, but...

Obviously things have moved on in terms of parenting ideas and approaches but, parenting approaches used to broadly fall into 3 approaches (and probably still do really they're just given diffeent names now) authoritarian, authoritative and permissive.

Authoritarian - little freedom, little flexibility, do want I say, no questions asked. Overly harsh unrelated consequences.

Authoritative - boundaries. Children have some freedom to make decisions and are heard and learn to make good choices but ultimately the parent is in control. Natural consequences.

Permissive - children can do what they want. No boundaries. No consequences.

Sheep analogy...

Authoritarian - a sheep in a tiny pen, can't move. Can't turn round. Can't easily do anything without someone else's permission. Sheep is restricted and doesn't have chance to exercise or make any choices for itself. It never learns how to manage itself so, when let out of the pen, goes a bit wild.

Authoritative - sheep is in an appropriately sized pen. It has freedom to move and walk and go from one side to the other. But it can always see the fence. It knows where the boundaries are. It learns.

Permissive - sheep is in a big, wide field. There is no fence and so no boundaries. Whilst it initially feels great to the sheep, it doesn't know how far it can stray, if it's gone too far, when it needs to come back, how to get back. There is no sense of safety or boundaries because there are none.

Not explained brilliantly because no one wants to read an essay!

But the OP's daughter is likely to be behaving so badly because she's trying to (even subconsciously) find out where the boundaries are. Boundaries show children that they are loved and cared about by someone who wants to keep them physically, emotionally and mentally safe. She doesn't feel that because it doesn't exist in her world. So her behaviour becomes more extreme and unfathomable (at 12 that might look like pointlessly throwing compost into the house).

So the more extreme, unfathomable behaviours aren't necessarily because there is something deeper or worse going on, but are quite likely because she is craving the security of some sort of boundary and sense of safety, where she fits into the world, how she impacts on it, etc.

People thrive on discipline. Not punishment but learning self discipline and managing themselves because it gives them a sense of control. Which is why natural consequences are more effective than arbitrary 'punishments'. Without them, people end up learning that nothing they do matters. They have no impact on the world. Who am I that people care so little? They don't understand the impact they have on others because nothing they do has an impact. That, in turn, impacts on the development of their sense of self.

OP, your husband thinks she will respect him if he's always nice to her. If he's always protects her from the consequences to her actions. Unfortunately, people don't work that way.

Mix56 · 03/07/2024 07:30

Its your H who has created this demon.
Honestly, I could not live with him

CurlewKate · 03/07/2024 07:34

@BifurBofurBombur "To kids messing around with dirt IS fun."

Did you spot that she's 12? In secondary school?

GreyCarpet · 03/07/2024 07:34

So many people are talking about punishing the daughter.

She needs to be taught and to learn before she can be punished.

Her parents have created this situation they need to take responsibility for correcting it rather than just resorting to punishments.

If there are no boundaries, how is she supposed to know what is acceptable and what is not? In her world, she can do what she likes.

She just wants to know where she stands.

Toastghost · 03/07/2024 07:34

I agree with you. Your kids need consistency from their parents, and boundaries. It’s not doing them a favour to let them do whatever they want with no consequences.

She probably chucked the dirt in because she’d get to see you react to it and of course, she wouldn’t have to clean up or get told off.

were his parents over the top strict with him or something? So he doesn’t want to be the same but he’s gone too far the other way?

CatMumSlave · 03/07/2024 07:35

There are 2 things.

Your husband letting her get away with behaving like this.

Your daughter at 12 thinking this is ok.

I think you should take her to the doctors. Something is going on.

Superhansrantowindsor · 03/07/2024 07:38

You and your husband have to be on the same page. I think your punishment was reasonable given her age, the act and the lying. She is testing boundaries and sees your dh has none. This behaviour will likely continue. You and dh need to sort out between you how you are going to sort this as a team.

GreyCarpet · 03/07/2024 07:40

People are also applying adult logic to a child's brain.

Children don't approach the world in the way that adults do. Their brains don't work in the same way.

People are advocating punishing, medicalising and diagnosing a child with something because her parents have failed her.

That's not to criticise you, OP. Babies don't come with a handbook and all. But it really is basic child psychology.

But parenting support would be more beneficial than taking a child to the doctor because her parents have let her down.

Easipeelerie · 03/07/2024 07:40

Sounds like conflict makes him anxious so he’ll do anything to quieten it. I get that, I’m a bit that way.
You sound incompatible though. Even he should see that the compost thing was really bad.

AGodawfulsmallaffair · 03/07/2024 07:43

I had a foster daughter who was stealing cash. When I eventually got her to admit it, my ex dh gave her a tenner behind my back. It was a pathetic need to be liked. He was not a good influence, sounds like your dh, who has so undermined your good parenting with his weakness.
I’d have sold the go kart.

DoreenonTill8 · 03/07/2024 07:44

CollyBobble · 03/07/2024 07:20

I imagine that you are the one that does the housework so the deliberate trashing only the home with compost soil is aimed at you.

It's an act of attacking you and is spiteful and the laughter indicates contempt and the pleasure gained at you having to clear it up.

It's very disturbing behaviour given that it was not done in temper.

Then there is your husband who is undermining you and rewarding g her lack of respect for you.

You and your husband are good cop bad cop in her eyes and she's playing up to it.

I would be very concerned that there will be further incidents of destructive and spiteful behaviour aimed at you.

As she approaches 13, hormones may start coming into play and she may become even more hostile towards you.

I'd think about getting her some form of counselling and I'd be having a proper talk with your husband at him creating a monster by rewarding her and being soft on her.

Sadly, I would also think about securing your personal items that are of sentimental value or expensive such as jewellery so that she can't break or destroy anything of high regard as her behaviour may escalate to further acts of spite against you. Photographs may also be targeted.

Absolutely agree with this and pp who posted about the dh and dd creating a you vs them situation with you being the oppressor and them being the poor got at dd and rescuer disney daddy. It's been posted about on here before about a triangle thing which I'm sure is relevant but can't remember name of it!

GreyCarpet · 03/07/2024 07:47

Superhansrantowindsor · 03/07/2024 07:38

You and your husband have to be on the same page. I think your punishment was reasonable given her age, the act and the lying. She is testing boundaries and sees your dh has none. This behaviour will likely continue. You and dh need to sort out between you how you are going to sort this as a team.

She's not testing the boundaries. That implies she's checking to see if they're still in the same place or to see when they have/if they can be moved.

You say yourself, there are no boundaries. How can she be testing boundaries that don't exist? Is she supposed to apply and then test her own?

She's not testing them. She's trying to find them.

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