To want to discipline DD in this way?

[Puzzicle]

DD is 12. Yesterday we found a lot of compost all over the floor in the hallway by the back door. Way too much much to have been trodden in.

Asked DD who denied all knowledge. She'd been playing in the garden on her go kart and we could see an open bag of compost so assumed she had run over the bag and tried to bring her kart inside, dropping the compost everywhere.

She went off to her hobby and I decided to check the security camera. It shows DD opening the compost bag, running over it a few times and then grabbing a hand full of compost and flinging it in through the open door whilst laughing.

I was absolutely fuming. I confiscated her phone when she got home and wanted to take he TV from her room but DH didn't agree and stopped me. I also told her she was grounded for the rest of the week. She showed absolutely no remorse for her behaviour and said it was an accident (it most definitely was not).

So today she comes home from school and asks to go to her friend's house. I say no, and explain why. DH then comes in complaining I've told her no. We were going out later in the evening and he wanted to please her so she would behaved for her babysitter (Grandma). Anyway, she's kicking off so he stops work early, takes her out to the shops and buys her a book (and probably other stuff).

AIBU to think she should be getting consequences for her actions, not being treated? Or was my suggested punishment too harsh?

So as not to drip feed - this is a big issue with me and DH. He never wants to tell the DC off or tell them no whereas I think they need boundaries and discipline.

I think your punishments were entirely reasonable, but I would have also removed her TV.

Fucking hell OP. I think you need to pre warn your DH that you have raised kids who will have no respect for anyone or anything around them. They will struggle to maintain relationships, in fact, life will be one big struggle for them and it will be you and him picking up the pieces. Forever. I mean the fact that your dd even thought to do that at her age is weird in itself.
You absolutely are doing the right thing in standing back and letting your DH run himself ragged but this is only going to get worse. Kids raised with no boundaries or consequences really struggle to adapt to adulting. What are you actually going to do? No point in leaving him because he WILL Disney dad like nothing you have ever seen before. He's making a lifetime rod for both your backs.
Seeing as though this has been a problem since your eldest has been born I have no idea what to suggest bar waiting till they are grown and running away. I'm only half joking.

Edited to add, I would also say something every single time he complained about doing it all and that you do nothing. Every single time say 'you are choosing to do this instead of asking the kids, I am not getting involved'.

What was his dad like? I ask because having a very harsh dad sometimes sends men the other way.

Your DH is misguided. Children need boundaries it makes them feel safe and secure. If your DH doesn't change his stance soon you are going to have huge problems when your DD hits the tricky age of 14-17 as she thinks she can do exactly as she wants. Also your DH might fix everything now but he won't be able to do this for ever. This will impact your DD's relationships with her peers if she never has to take responsibility for her behaviour.

I love my DD dearly but I would not be doing my job properly if I let her get away with bad behaviour when she was younger.

Yes, @KomodoOhno it has ruined our marriage and I checked out a while back. Which I think is why I haven't pushed to go back to counselling but I'm going to have to.

(And I do know that checking out is not the right thing to do)

That's very odd and juvenile behaviour from a 12 year old. I'd be absolutely furious, not just at the act, but at the blatant lies. I would be raging with DH if he undermined me and went and purchased books and treats. She doesn't deserve them and needs to apologise, pay for the compost from her pocket money and not be allowed to her friends or to her hobby. She's not 4, she is 12 -old enough to understand the consequences of her actions and certainly old enough to deal with them.

@Zippedeedooda We still took her off to her hobby as we were really confused as to how the compost got there. Never dreamed it would have been such a deliberate act. We also have a dog so that was a possibility, again I don't know why or how the dog would have done it but with the way the compost was it was a bit of a head scratcher.

I probably should have checked the camera before we took her but we were in a hurry and had to pick up other DC so I left it.

Oh and having to be bribed to behave for her gran at 12 is absolutely ridiculous. She's secondary school age!

I would have divorced him long ago.

Going through life being negated and undermined is no way to live. He doesn't have your back at all.

What pathology is in his past that he continually absolves them at your expense?

Sympathy to you. 💐

Why would she respect you if she can lie and do this kind of this and get taken out for a treat. She sees her dad disrespect and undermine you, this is all she knows. You shouldn't have to check cameras at all, this is behaviour that you should have jumped on 10 years ago.

I don't really know why he is like this. Putting the patenting to one side, he's generally a decent person. Works hard, doesn't do anything illegal, always looking out for others etc. I just genuinely think he feels the way to show love is by giving them whatever they want and he doesn't realise that by doing that he's not helping them and also alienating them against me.

I've never asked much about his childhood discipline. He was/is close to his parents but I do know his dad would give him the slipper if he was naughty (not something I condone).

@orangalang I never intended to go this deep in this thread but the DC have seen him lie to me and so it comes quite naturally to them. Things like he'd be doing the bed time routine when younger and I'd come in and say have you brushed your teeth DD? He'll jump in and say yes despite it not being true.

Oops, I mean parenting, not patenting

This is quite bizzare behaviour with her age and no ND , my daughter walks manure in on her riding boots she knows they supposed to come off at the door she’s the one who cleans it I think direct consequences are better so no activity for your DD
do you think she’s picking up on yours and your DH issues?

I'm sorry but this is very disturbing and disordered behaviour. Very.

Are you able to access professional counseling on your own? A trained therapist might help you put some of his extremely odd behaviour in perspective.

@BettyBardMacDonald yes I should be able to access it through work

This whole situation would absolutely incense me, but I expect it also leaves you feeling quite helpless.

I agree with others that a return to therapy is in order. I would consider family therapy instead of couples therapy, with a focus on parenting. It's one thing to disagree on what specific consequences should be in a situation, but this goes far beyond that - you and your DH aren't just arguing over what rhythm to row the boat at, you're paddling in opposite directions. Extremely permissive parenting like your husband is choosing can be just as harmful for children and teens as overly harsh parenting, but many people don't actually know what loving, authoritative parenting looks like because we didn't experience it as children. We can learn it as adults, but it does take work. I'd address the need to go to family therapy with your DH by explaining that you're concerned about how the conflicting parenting styles are negatively affecting your DC rather than centering it on you and him.

Other people have addressed specific consequences. I feel like that's small potatoes compared to the bigger issue, but I do agree that logical consequences are best when available. I probably would have taken away her go-kart for the week, had her finish cleaning any of her mess remaining, and then set her other household cleaning tasks equivalent to about twice the time you and DH had each already spent cleaning up.

I wish you the best. I don't think you realize how badly you are being mistreated here.

Your husband should never contradict and undermine you in front of the children or anyone else.

💐💐💐

What the actual fuck is wrong with your husband? How can he not see how wrong he is getting it?

I have no advice but my utmost sympathy at having to deal with such a monumental idiot.

It looks as though your dh is doing everything to parent the opposite to his father and probably more like his mother, who you’ve hinted was permissive, probably in an attempt to protect him. His bizarre reactions and lies to questions about teeth brushing and accidents in the home sound as though they are shielding techniques, which his mother needed to use against his father. Because of his upbringing, it sounds as though your dh really didn’t have a role model in either parent and hasn’t learned how to parent his children normally.

This is a dreadful situation and I totally agree that you need family therapy. Contrary to what your dh thinks, children actively seek boundaries when there are none. The compost throwing is bizarre but seen in the context of seeking boundaries, it perhaps is not. You’re going to hit very rocky times with your dd, who will actively seek boundaries with more and more difficult and potentially risky behaviours in her teens. Her younger sibling(s) may also copy this behaviour. It is really important to quickly get this under control.

I agree with @Mummyoflittledragon - if his father hit him and his mother was frightened of his father, he may be terrified of any conflict in the home. That’s not to excuse his frankly batshit reactions - if this is the issue, he needs to do the work in counselling to move past it.

What would happen if, when something like this happens, you walked away and paid it, and DD, no attention? He might still race in to “rescue” and clean up, but it might be less undermining for you?

Without making too many assumptions, given your observations about his mum and also that his dad would physically assault as punishment, maybe his mum used to lie about his behaviour to his dad to stop that happening? From a child's perspective he'd see that as love/protection which it was, but he doesn't need to emulate that behaviour because his children aren't at risk of harm