To think that asking people if they have kids is an innocent question

[SiberFox]

Two of my best friends are childless not by choice and finding it hard, and I’m learning to navigate that as a friend with a baby. Blogs, podcasts and forums for the childless have been really helpful for me to better understand how they might be feeling/what not to say etc, as well as my personal experience of recurrent miscarriage. I am on board with most advice I’ve seen so far.

However, something that I’ve seen frequently on there is the condemnation of the “do you have children?” question - it keeps bugging me. I understand where it comes from - when you’re grieving, it must be triggering, uncomfortable, painful to be reminded of that/to try and find an adequate answer. But the conclusion that it should therefore be banned as a “lazy”, “insensitive”, “triggering” question just seems like an overreaction? It’s not like asking a stranger how many kids they’ve got which would be stupid and insensitive as an assumption, it’s just establishing a basic fact about the person. I’ve seen many people say that it’s completely not interesting/irrelevant as you get to know the person, but how is it irrelevant? It’s literally one of the major things to know about someone.

I’m finding the “Where do you come from” question uncomfortable at the moment because my country is screwing up politically on the global arena but it doesn’t make me think that we should ban the question. Anything can be triggering - asking about someone’s line of work (what if they’re unemployed), etc etc, where do we draw the line?

AIBU that there is nothing wrong with the question per se? Or am I lacking empathy here?

If you just say "no" and nothing further, or "No, I've actually just been dumped and spend every night crying myself to sleep" then it's you that is making the conversation awkward, not the person asking the questions!

If someone is inconsiderate enough to ask a question knowing that they have absolutely no idea how to move the conversation on if the person just answers it with "no", then it's on them. Every time.

I absolutely can put aside the pain of being asked, 9 times out of 10, and get them out of the conversational hole - though often I find that as soon as they hear "no", they've no interest in me anymore anyway because all they actually wanted was to witter on about their kids to another mum. But for the 1 time in 10 that I can't muster up a cheerful way of repackaging my infertility for someone who clearly couldn't give an iota of consideration in the first place... well, I don't judge myself too harshly for that.

Absolutely! As has been explained numerous times already, it’s not the asking if the question, it’s the inability of some ppl to deal with any answer beyond “yes I have got 2”

Don’t get me started on the people who insist I will ‘never know love’ if I don’t reproduce I have a whole other level of hatred for people who trot this out

When we got married people would ask me all the time, are you going to/do you want to have children.
We were in our new home and so i used to answer, not until I’ve got carpet.

If anyone else said that to my face I would never ever speak to them again, patronising, sanctimonious and incredibly insensitive beyond belief.

I’d probably tell them to fuck off first.

Yes it gives me homicidal rage.

Dh and I do not have kids. Don't mind someone asking if they leave it when told no. One time after saying we didn't have kids the person then went on to say had we considered artificial insemination!!!!! Also one other person started to go into a whole conflab about not having kids. Tbh I have no recollection of what she said but remember thinking what on earth is this woman going on about wishing she would just shut up.

Any conversation carries the risk that you might hear something that triggers you and the chance that you might hear something that makes you feel the sun just came out.

If you feel it's not worth the risk the obvious solution is to buy at least two cats, cover your windows and never speak to a stranger again.

(You'll be doing the stranger a favour since no one wants to be taken to court for making small talk.)

If you must go out then keep your head down and ignore anyone trying to be friendly.

Practise a really hostile glare for anyone who remarks "nice weather" without considering the implications for global warming

It's quite funny the amount of people I run into that are so utterly self-involved that I never have to worry about answering ANY questions! They spend the entire time talking about themselves, but tbh I quite like that atm.

I don’t mind just listening to people and not feeling any pressure to contribute to the conversation myself!

I was always told to never ask people personal questions.So no, what do you do, where are you from, do you have kids, a partner, etc. Very useful to avoid offence, less useful for getting to know people

I think the question is harmless in its intent, but I don’t like being asked it either, because I feel uncomfortable. I work with kids and am of child bearing age, so I see why people ask. But the answer is hard as I really want my own but am struggling to make that happen, for various long winded and personal reasons. I feel if I wanted the person to know this long and sensitive backstory, they would be my close friend and would already know it- yet the person usually asking this is a work colleague or client or stranger and i don’t want to feel I have over shared more than I am comfortable because of the questionner making me feel awkward. Yet, Also it feels awkward conversationally to just say “no I don’t.” And leave it there as a silence, without elaborating (and I notice they sense this by the way they often stutter and fumble.). I just commented on another mumsnet question about asking q’s in convo, saying basically my conversation style is to take turns to make comments or share stories, and not ask questions. I think as long as you leave pauses and look interested whenever anyone volunteers a comment/story, you don’t need to ever ask anyone any questions! But each to their own- and people mean well when they ask.

Asking the question itself isn't that much of a problem (well, not for me anyway) but I tend to find that a lot of people don't know where to go from that 'no'. Some immediately start to look awkward and you can see them trying to figure out if it's a sore point (fair enough), some are blunt enough to ask why not, and invariably there are always some who will put their heads on one side and coo that there's 'still time.' (And in my experience some people will still say this even when told someone is childfree by choice. Although mercifully for me that has ceased now I'm post-menopause. I knew there had to be a silver lining somewhere.😂)

This.

Just to add to my previous post, although I don't mind being asked myself, it isn't something I tend to ask other people, just in case it is a sore point.

I don't have a problem being asked. However, I'm not sure why anyone would want to know.

But even worse would be to say "nah I don't want them" to a parent. Some might take that the wrong way.

I’d happily say ‘No, I prefer cats’ and then start telling them about my fostering.

I wouldn’t ask anyone if they had kids though. I’m happy to make polite conversation about them but the topic doesn’t interest me particularly.

I'm as likely to say "Hell no" (or "Fuck no" depending on the audience) if someone asks. I don't want them getting the idea I want to hear about their children.

Cats, however ... 😻

Half my team at work are childfree but have cats 😀.

I'd love to get a job like that!

Me too - I see so many MNetters complaining about endless pets on Zoom calls but during the lockdown it was 24/7 everyone’s kids and I was bored senseless!

I love seeing cats on Zoom calls!

Plenty of mine have made appearances too, though my current pair are usually too busy snoring in the window.

I've never made a Zoom call but during my last Whatsapp call with friends there was a moment when the screen (tiny, because stupid WhatsApp only works on my phone) went mysteriously grey and fluffy ...

😸

Oh love that's horrible. Hugs to you x x