To think that asking people if they have kids is an innocent question

[SiberFox]

Two of my best friends are childless not by choice and finding it hard, and I’m learning to navigate that as a friend with a baby. Blogs, podcasts and forums for the childless have been really helpful for me to better understand how they might be feeling/what not to say etc, as well as my personal experience of recurrent miscarriage. I am on board with most advice I’ve seen so far.

However, something that I’ve seen frequently on there is the condemnation of the “do you have children?” question - it keeps bugging me. I understand where it comes from - when you’re grieving, it must be triggering, uncomfortable, painful to be reminded of that/to try and find an adequate answer. But the conclusion that it should therefore be banned as a “lazy”, “insensitive”, “triggering” question just seems like an overreaction? It’s not like asking a stranger how many kids they’ve got which would be stupid and insensitive as an assumption, it’s just establishing a basic fact about the person. I’ve seen many people say that it’s completely not interesting/irrelevant as you get to know the person, but how is it irrelevant? It’s literally one of the major things to know about someone.

I’m finding the “Where do you come from” question uncomfortable at the moment because my country is screwing up politically on the global arena but it doesn’t make me think that we should ban the question. Anything can be triggering - asking about someone’s line of work (what if they’re unemployed), etc etc, where do we draw the line?

AIBU that there is nothing wrong with the question per se? Or am I lacking empathy here?

@Jc2001 I'm sure they do, but not so quickly and readily. And it wouldn't be followed with 'why not?' if they said they didn't.

The fact is women are judged on whether they have kids. Almost as if they often feel like they are inadequate because they don't have them.

This is a a real thing. I thankfully don't feel that way, and am perfectly happy not to have kids. But I know how it can affect women.

A bloke who was childless would not face the same societal judgement.

I don't have issues over not having children, I'm very happy about it. What I have issues over is when I say that I don't have children and some people trying to find out why instead of accepting my answer and moving on.

I don't usually ask it first just in case it's a source of pain to them. However, nearly everyone asks me and then I ask them in return. I feel if they raise the issue, it's OK to ask.

Exactly, and the fact you might not be happy about it, it’s such an incredibly personal question to probe a complete stranger about.

It's bad small talk. I know small talk can be awkward and annoying but it's just an obviously fraught question. Being childless not by choice or being estranged from your family are not that uncommon.

I'm child-free by choice and don't care about being asked, and honestly I don't especially mind being asked why either. As long as they can handle my reasons (I like freedom, I like disposable income, I like sleep, I like partying and I think family time looks appallingly tedious). I'd think the person who asked very rude though - I've often wondered why people choose to have children but it seems obviously terrible to actually ask out loud.

Also, men never ever get asked it, and yet manage to make small talk about plenty of other subjects.

Good small talk starts with whatever you have in common - whatever brought you both to that particular spot that day where you're talking to each other - and progresses from there. If you're happy to talk about a particular subject you should bring it up yourself and if the other person doesn't bite, move on. If you want to talk about kids, mention yours - the other person will either want to talk about theirs and you can natter away, or they don't and you can think of another topic. (I do this with politics. Happy to chat or rant away but if the other person shows no interest, why would I press on with the subject...)

You generally don't need to ask this question. If someone has kids, they will usually find a way to shoehorn them into the conversation within the first 5 minutes of meeting them.

The problem isn't always the question itself. It's what comes next if the answer is 'no'. I don't have kids and hate being asked it because there's always a slightly awkward pause when I say no, and I have no wish to elaborate on why I don't have them.

@AddictedToBooks I'm sorry for your losses and that you get put in that position.

"Smalltalk" should be just that, small.

For the people who think this is "just chitchat". Doesn't it bother you that you could totally ruin someone's day?! Baby loss, infertility, involuntary childlessness etc is not at all uncommon.

You really are playing with fire asking this question.

I think a similarly innocent, neutral question is, "are your parents still alive?" Probably most people can say yes but for those who say no there is likely to be something painful there.

Take the risk of asking about children by all means. None of us can demand anyone else curtails their freedom of speech. But to label it as innocent when you know there will be some people who will be upset by the question and that you can't tell in advance who they are seems incredibly disingenuous to me.

I think it’s fine to ask assuming it’s not out of the blue, and I’d ask men as well.

I will admit I don't like to be asked. I appreciate it's normally well meaning as the majority of people have them and they want to talk about the shared experience. I work in health care, meeting around 20 people a day. So I get asked regularly. And for me it's still pretty raw that I was never able to conceive as I only had my last IVF a year ago. Plus I look slightly younger than I am so I think people assume I can still have them. Plus because I'm working on a patient/clinician basis I obviously don't want to make anyone feel awkward.
So conversations go like this.
"Do you have kids?"
"No I don't"
"Oh why not? Are you planning on them?"
Then it either has to go:
"No I'm 44 and a bit old for that now!" (Insert fake laughing that implies I'm happy about it)
Or
"Oh it just never really happened for me....." (quickly change the subject)
This often then is followed by the patient saying "oh my cousins dogs aunties friends daughter got pregnant at 50!! You've still got time!"
Or
"Oh well you're lucky really I've got 3 and Oh my good haha its so bad I'm so tired haha I bet you enjoy sleeping in every weekend!"
And I have to laugh along that yes it's great and I'm so happy.
But inside its killing me.
So I'd rather not be asked.
Maybe in 10 years it won't bother me as much.

I don't think it's offensive or needs some sort of outright ban but I do disagree with your argument "It’s literally one of the major things to know about someone."

Why?

If you are getting to know someone, they will tell you if they have children when/if it is relevant. What will outright asking them achieve? If you are meeting someone for the first time you can choose to talk about literally anything under the sun, I just don't understand why you'd need to establish their motherhood credentials in order to chat to someone. There are a very limited number of topics where you would HAVE to have had kids yourself to have an input - off the top of my head I'm thinking things like the best way to wean a child off a dummy or allocated school places - all of which tbh are quite boring conversation topics for the first time you meet someone anyway.

If there are no negative consequences or impact whatsoever to you of not asking if someone has kids, and there could potentially be negative impacts either to them (or to you, if you're at all decent presumably you will feel at least a little awkward if someone turns around and says "no I'm infertile" or "well I had a child but they died of cancer,") of asking, then why wouldn't you just take the easier road of not asking, and (if it is so very important for you to know) wait for the topic to come up organically?

I don't think it's an offensive question but I would feel weird just saying "no" and not elaborating and cutting the conversation dead. But even worse would be to say "nah I don't want them" to a parent. Some might take that the wrong way. I'll probably just say "no not yet" until I'm well into my 40s and then change it to something like "they just weren't on the cards" when it's clear I'm too old for that! Anything else seems a bit blunt really.

But as others have said no one needs to really ask, kids are probably the number one conversation topic parents are going to mention, you'll know if someone has kids within minutes.

Before I met my husband my answer would have been no.
My parents are dead, I've no siblings so no nieces or nephews, no children and although I do have one uncle in another country I haven't seen or spoken to him for about 20 years. I'm not even sure if he's still alive.

I don’t ask, I assume if they do it will come up naturally, if not then that will too but the question itself can be insensitive to some people. The same as I’d never ask about say an obvious disability unless they brought it up first.

Sorry, don’t get this? 🤔

do you have kids?

the 2 of us are going to tesco/asda/work/the gym

I have children now but it was after many years of heartache and, £££ and fertility treatment.

The pain of wanting a child and not being able to have one almost killed me.

I never ask someone if they have kids. If I’m getting to know someone and they tell me they have kids, then we go from there. But I never ask. Same as I never ask if they have a partner. You never know if the person got a BFN the day before.

Exactly.

I hate being asked this question. I'm sure I must have been asked it in social situations eg when in a new job but I can't really remember it. But I do get asked it on a fairly regular basis at work by patients, like a previous poster mentioned. I don't work with children so it's not parents wanting first hand experience. It literally is not related to the appointment at all. The patient does not need to know whether or not I am a mother to carry out my role. I either tell them no, I have cats or no, I am much too young for that (late 30s!). In truth, I desperately want to be a mother and had seriously considered doing it on my own. I have recently started seeing someone (within the last couple of months) and the questions about when we are going to have children have already started. I'm not even sure I can have children. It does make me cry sometimes.

I agree Op. I do feel bad if I’ve asked that question and the answer is a brief “No” because it’s clearly not my business to ask anything else and as I was just making polite chitchat it’s just difficult to … make the convo flow after that. For me it’s triggering when people ask about my family because my mum has passed- when someone innocently says “your mum must adore watching your kids play” or “bet you can’t wait to go home so your mum can give them the biggest cuddle” … and I’d give my right arm for that to have happened. But I’d never blame anyone for putting their foot in it, it’s just painful for me that’s all. So yes we all trigger each other all the time and it’s usually not done purposefully.

As someone with a history of baby loss, I'd never ask the question unless someone had brought up their kids organically. I personally wouldn't get upset if someone asked me, but I also know enough to know that there are so many different stories out there that it can be upsetting. Also, as someone without children, I have so little to say in response to a list of sexes and ages ('an 8 year old boy! Er, cool?') that I don't find it gets the conversation that much further. Talking about pets tends to be less fraught (there's the odd chance someone's lost a pet that week, but it's not the same) and you can joke about cats vs dogs, etc.

No it’s not a question you should ask - as many have said if people want to bring up their children they will.

I have no children of my own but have a 5 year old step son - when people ask me and I say yes I have a stepchild, I get asked “do you want any of your own” so often - and yes, I do. But it’s a very painful conversation to have and it’s nobody else’s business.

So you know that many people will find it a painful question, but even so, because it’s not a problem for you, you still want to justify asking? Also, it’s going to be quite awkward for them if the answer is just “no” (followed by Stoney silence). where does the conversation go from there? In my experience parents will let you know very early on in a conversation that they have children as they will bring them up in conversation without needing to be asked (nothing wrong with that).
Also, how many men get asked this question?

Im not sure why you'd purposely ask people. It can be such a painful topic. I don't mind the question but I lost my only children so far [baby twin boys] nearly 8 months ago - one stillborn and his brother in the NICU unit a few days later, so it depends how people phrase it
I like talking about them but it can also reduce me to tears.

As for asking strangers, I guess it depends where people are at with their lives. Obviously people who have been successfull in their pregnancies will find it non offensive as opposed to those who haven't most of the time.

Exactly this. So if it's just deployed as a piece of small talk and not in any particular context (e.g. having already spoken about children more generally) I think it's a bit tricky.

I remember attending a friend's hen party when I'd been TTC for over a year, with fertility issues on both sides. The groom's mum turned to me with no introduction and said: "Do you have children?" "No, but..." "Do you want children?" "Ah yes, it would be lovely, but..." "Very good". And that was enough for her to turn away and move onto someone else 🤷🏻

I'm childfree, and the only thing that bugs me (mildly) about "do you have children" is that I find children a boring subject of conversation. Obviously that's not the case for the parents who talk about them, but it is for me. The offensive bit is the idiots, as PP have said, who do the astonished/pitying responses when you say No.