To think that asking people if they have kids is an innocent question

[SiberFox]

Two of my best friends are childless not by choice and finding it hard, and I’m learning to navigate that as a friend with a baby. Blogs, podcasts and forums for the childless have been really helpful for me to better understand how they might be feeling/what not to say etc, as well as my personal experience of recurrent miscarriage. I am on board with most advice I’ve seen so far.

However, something that I’ve seen frequently on there is the condemnation of the “do you have children?” question - it keeps bugging me. I understand where it comes from - when you’re grieving, it must be triggering, uncomfortable, painful to be reminded of that/to try and find an adequate answer. But the conclusion that it should therefore be banned as a “lazy”, “insensitive”, “triggering” question just seems like an overreaction? It’s not like asking a stranger how many kids they’ve got which would be stupid and insensitive as an assumption, it’s just establishing a basic fact about the person. I’ve seen many people say that it’s completely not interesting/irrelevant as you get to know the person, but how is it irrelevant? It’s literally one of the major things to know about someone.

I’m finding the “Where do you come from” question uncomfortable at the moment because my country is screwing up politically on the global arena but it doesn’t make me think that we should ban the question. Anything can be triggering - asking about someone’s line of work (what if they’re unemployed), etc etc, where do we draw the line?

AIBU that there is nothing wrong with the question per se? Or am I lacking empathy here?

After years and years of infertility followed by 5 miscarriages. It’s one question I hate being asked.

I went through fertility treatment and yes it did bother me when asked by people I didn’t really know. But what was worse was ‘when are you going to have kids?’ Yep I was asked that more than once! Or ‘why don’t you have kids?’
then when we did have our miracle baby, you get ‘are you going to have another’.
Interesting that some others have said it didn’t bother them even when struggling with fertility. It really upset me at times and I’d never ask personal questions of virtual strangers.
i find most people will tell you about themselves as you get to know them.
we’re all different in how we react to things and it’s important to be mindful of that regardless of whether you agree it’s a fair question or not.
Whether you think it’s alright to ask means nothing really, does it?

Yes this. It used to fill me with dread when meeting someone new. I’d be saying ‘no’ and praying they didn’t then also ask why!!!

I find it's a no win situation. Many times colleagues are talking about their kids doing something and then turn and look at me as if it's my turn to say "well with mine...." but of course I just sit there and smile. The alternative is to talk about my cats.

I agree with this. I think it's selfish to expect someone who can't have children to have to politely listen to you wittering on about your children while they die inside.

That's an astute observation. Not all parents, by any means, but I can think of some I've known who use their children as a bit of a social crutch at parties which can be a talking point cul de sac for those not also in the parenting club.

I don't mind someone asking me if I have kids or where I come from or about my parents or what I do for a living - these are pretty normal getting-to-know-you questions - but I would hope the questioner would also gracefully accept a response that offers the minimal "its complicated" reply without digging further and have the wherewithal to change the subject.

Of course men get asked the same question.

You sound lovely OP, what a great friend you are to put so much effort into getting this right. For people saying other people need to get over themselves, why ask something that's painful for a lot of people? Do you really need to know the answer that much that's it's worth upsetting someone? It's not like people are saying you can't talk about your own kids. Yes, there are other questions that could be potentially painful but asking someone what they do for work when they may be unemployed is a bit different to asking someone about kids when they may have lost a child. Baby loss is sadly not that uncommon so it's not like it's super unlikely. It feels a bit like asking if someone's parents are still alive. There are so many more interesting things to ask anyway.

I never ask, I am mindful that this could be a difficult question for some people. As you get to know someone they are very likely to mention their kids if they have them, then it’s okay to ask further questions about them. I don’t think there’s any need to ask people, either you know them well enough that you’ll find out anyway or you don’t know them well enough to ask personal questions so why would you bring it up. There’s plenty of other things to talk about.

I never ask that question because I don't really care whether the woman in front of me has children or not. I can find something else to small talk about.

When a woman asks me that question I assume they are very child-oriented without their own identity.

It's the same with the relationship questions - are you married? do you have a boyfriend/girlfriend? If that's their small talk "getting to know you question" then they are very relationship-oriented. They think they are nothing without a partner and they are projecting that anxiety by asking the question.

That kind of information will gradually unfold in the normal course. There are a million other "getting to know you" questions that don't immediately drop a woman into a category based on the presence of other people in this woman's life.

If I think the answer might be no, I ask people if they have family. Someone childfree can answer by saying they have a partner or nieces and nephews or godchildren - they don’t just have to “no”.

I agree with most of your comment. I did want to clear up the myth that kids "ruin your body" though - I'm the same weight as pre baby but I've been left with big boobs (was flat chested before). I always wanted bigger boobs and in all honesty I prefer my post baby body. It's not necessarily going to ruin anything

Even worse is the inevitable follow up question (if you say "no")...... "Why not?". Whether you're childless or childfree, this is nobody else's f*ing business. I don't notice people with children being asked to justify their choice to procreate.
And it's true that there's an element of misogyny because I guarantee you that men don't get asked anything like as often as women do.
Yes, if someone has children then it's a big part of their life but, as you get to know them, it will come out naturally in conversation. There is absolutely no need to ask this question of a virtual stranger.

I don’t think it is ok to ask why do you need to know it’s not relevant in areas of my life that don’t involve them.

I don’t ask that question because I just think the answer could be really emotional for some people and not something they want to get into. There are plenty of other options for small talk.

It doesn’t bother me; the only thing that bothers me is bloody sympathetic replies afterwards, or total silence, like they don’t know what to say because it must be tragic to not have any.

Or the sudden looking around for an escape from me because I obviously don't have any thing in common 🤣🙄

This

But I also find that some people can’t take no as the answer and can’t help but follow with why - “I Really don’t like them” puts a stop to the stupid convo I’d rather not have and closes down waffle about how fabulous their offerings to society are. It’s not true I love kids but I don’t want to talk about them at work or get into it with people I know professionally.

@MsCactus I know, I was being somewhat tongue in cheek. But in seriousness it does affect me as I have ED and it's a factor that stopped me having kids. But yeah, I don't really think it ruins people's bodies.

I've managed to build and negotiate friendships by not asking these sorts of questions in the early stages. I figure if someone wants to tell me, they'll tell me, or it'll naturally come up in conversation.
Things I don't ask:
Are you married?
Where are you from?
Do you have kids?
What do you earn?
What religion are you?

It’s a very lazy question which tends only to be asked of women. It shows lack of imagination and curiosity about the other person. If they have children, they’ll generally tell you.

I would never directly ask. Many people who are childless not by choice have been through a lot of trauma and it would stir it up. It’s important to listen to people in that situation and hear their voices. People have told me it’s painful and I respect them, so I avoid asking.

It isn’t difficult for me to not ask but it might be difficult for some people to be asked.

I think it’s a question to stay away from. Some people are lucky enough to be oblivious to how hard it can be.

Some people don’t have any children and get annoyed because it shouldn’t define them when meeting someone, others feel upset because they want them but can’t. Then you have those who did give birth but their child died (and from my own experience that’s a whole internal dilemma about whether you are betraying them to not acknowledge them versus whether you want the pity and awkwardness that will follow).

I agree that asking about hobbies and spare time can be a far better way to get someone to open up.

Experience tells me that it is considered a personal and intrusive question even though I don't mind being asked myself!
So I never ask that question

I don’t ask it. Having lost a child and subsequently having a hysterectomy/oophorectomy, I hate being asked this question as well as how many DC I have.

I’m lucky to have one but when asked how many?, it reminds me I have lost one/couldn’t have any more (not that I really need reminding).