To think that asking people if they have kids is an innocent question

[SiberFox]

Two of my best friends are childless not by choice and finding it hard, and I’m learning to navigate that as a friend with a baby. Blogs, podcasts and forums for the childless have been really helpful for me to better understand how they might be feeling/what not to say etc, as well as my personal experience of recurrent miscarriage. I am on board with most advice I’ve seen so far.

However, something that I’ve seen frequently on there is the condemnation of the “do you have children?” question - it keeps bugging me. I understand where it comes from - when you’re grieving, it must be triggering, uncomfortable, painful to be reminded of that/to try and find an adequate answer. But the conclusion that it should therefore be banned as a “lazy”, “insensitive”, “triggering” question just seems like an overreaction? It’s not like asking a stranger how many kids they’ve got which would be stupid and insensitive as an assumption, it’s just establishing a basic fact about the person. I’ve seen many people say that it’s completely not interesting/irrelevant as you get to know the person, but how is it irrelevant? It’s literally one of the major things to know about someone.

I’m finding the “Where do you come from” question uncomfortable at the moment because my country is screwing up politically on the global arena but it doesn’t make me think that we should ban the question. Anything can be triggering - asking about someone’s line of work (what if they’re unemployed), etc etc, where do we draw the line?

AIBU that there is nothing wrong with the question per se? Or am I lacking empathy here?

Far more insensitive to rabbit on about your children to someone who is involuntarily childless. If you know they don't have children, you know not to make children a focus of the conversation. You don't need to know why.

I think you consider whether someone has children or not as being "literally one of the major things to know about someone" because you have children and presumably consider that to be one of the most important things about you.

In asking someone else the question "do you have children" you are seeking to find out whether they are like you. You are not asking an open question to find out about them and their life in general, you are asking a specific question to find out whether the most important thing in their life is the same as the most important thing in your life. In that sense, it's a lazy question. You could put in more effort and get a better response by asking a more open question.

I am childless, not by choice. If you ask me whether I have children, I will instantly be reminded of what I desperately want and don't have, the answer will be a simple "no", and our conversation ends. Whereas if you ask me whether I have a family, I might answer that I have two siblings and several nephews and nieces who I love spending time with, that my mother lives nearby and we are close, and I have two dogs that I adore. We have something to chat about then.

I do not have kids (never wanted them) and I understand it’s a general and harmless question that people say to make conversation and/or get to know you. It doesn’t bother me; the only thing that bothers me is bloody sympathetic replies afterwards, or total silence, like they don’t know what to say because it must be tragic to not have any.

I hate it, lots of IVF here, I wish people wouldn’t ask. I have colleagues in my small team and I have never asked if they have children, we find other topics of small talk.

I don't think it's ok to ask because it's not a standalone question. Someone can rarely just answer 'no'.
There'll often be a follow up question or they'll feel the need to elaborate when they may not want to and it's literally none of your business.

Agree with others, if you get to know someone you'll find out organically. No need to ask.

I'm not sure that's true...whenever I am getting to know someone new I'm almost always asked if I have kids. My wife and I weren't able to have them. It's something we've accepted. I will reply a simple no.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable question. I lost my mum at 17 and was asked by a colleague in my first job about a year later what I'd bought for mother's day. I was upset at the thought that I couldn't, but hid it and explained to the colleague what had happened

One of the things I learnt from Mumsnet was quite how triggering various things could be for women who have had miscarriages, have lost a child or who are unable to have kids. I obviously knew all of these things are extremely upsetting but I hadn't realised quite how that presented itself.

Childless not by choice here but have accepted it. Don’t mind being asked, as long as they just accept my No and don’t ask why, or,just as bad, assume I’m childfree by choice and say something like “Oh, very wise!”

But people get uncomfortable if the answer is 'no'

And no one has the right to another persons medical history

I don’t mind being asked as long as the askee has the social skills to move the conversation on and doesn’t just go “oh…” and stare at me, or ask why i don’t.

9 times out of ten they don’t, and it’s awkward at best.

(I can’t have kids.)

It’s bog standard small talk, I never had a problem being asked when I was childfree.

It’s not comparable to those questions. Being married/not and your work is a choice. Having / not having kids isn’t always a choice. I’d never ask anyone. If they want me to know they have kids, they can share that. And I’m fed up with how it’s me as a woman who’s asked. My DH rarely gets asked.

If I'm asked, I always reply "No I don't have them for the same reason I'd never have a dog - I intensely dislike them".

Never fails to shut them up. It's also has the bonus of being true!

The thing is, this makes so much sense to me, but some people who aren’t able / are struggling to have children say that a question like “do you have a family?” is also upsetting because it implies that only those with children are a “family”, so that would upset them even more than being asked if they have children.

That’s a very helpful perspective, thank you

I think this is bang on. I'm not offended by someone asking if I have kids - I am less happy about being asked when ill have kids, or why I don't have kids...!

But if you're asking people whether they have kids you need to have a follow up for if they say no which is not "why?" (none of your business!) or "lucky you ha ha" (maybe it's the worst thing in their life right now) and certainly not anything in the "oh you poor thing, maybe when you meet the right man/grow up a bit/ you'll never know real love if you don't" (fuck right off!).

Which, in my opinion, makes it easier to just avoid asking in the first place, and let it come out more organically through conversations about what they do for fun/hobbies/whatever.

I never ask that question because I have friends who lost a child and I know how painful the question is for them. One friend's only child died many years ago and she always hated having to respond when people asked her if she had children. She assumed the question would stop as she grew older, but no - now she gets, "Do you have grandchildren?"

People like to talk about their children, so there is no need to ask. If they don't say anything, I respect that.

I dread being asked this question.
It puts me in a position of saying "yes, one, but he's dead" which makes everyone else feel uncomfortable or saying I don't have children which feels like I'm lying and denying my son.

It's a question I'll never ask a stranger again, there's too many factors that could make upsetting for the other person.

Before I had kids I was often asked. One lady, when I said no, asked “why what’s wrong with you is it your ovaries”. That one got me I must admit!!!

Soon after that I started saying “no I’ve got cats instead”, which shut down the conversation instantly.

Then I had a very surprise pregnancy, so I was told that I obviously had wanted them all along. Yes I had, but nature had other ideas.

I think it’s one of those topics that people just like to talk about.

This.

An even better question is "what do you do with your free time". Those with kids will then probably talk about their kids.

It's a very common question but it seems that you're aware that it can cause distress to some (though not all) people who haven't been able to have children. So you know that if you choose to ask it there's a chance you'll be upsetting someone.

I don't normally ask it and I have to say I don't think I've ever not found out pretty soon into knowing someone with children that they have them. They're such a major part of parent's lives that it's almost inevitable they will come up very quickly.

I'm also child free by choice and I'm another who doesn't particularly mind being asked but hates the awkward silence (and occasionally obvious pity!) that almost always seems to follow when I say I don't have children.

Thank you for sharing that

It's a very personal question and there are very few situations in which you actually need to know the answer.

True. My small talk repertoire can do with a refresh…

Honestly, people need to get over themselves. There’s nothing harmful in asking a person if they have children. They are ice breaker conversations, don’t get what the big fuss is!