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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To let you all know :Jane the mntter held keir to acct, brilliantly on radio today and it's viral.

1000 replies

JaneVapeman · 28/06/2024 19:56

Unfortunately I can't link to her clip, but she's a star and a hero. She pinned him down and cut through the "twaddle". I am a swing voter and would have been proud of a mntter holding any mp to account on an important issue like Jane did. Jane is/was even trending on twitter.

💥

OP posts:
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15
FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/06/2024 11:56

Keir Starmer's answer was measured and compassionate to all parties

It's easy to appear to be measured and compassionate if you spout contradictory platitudes.

The problem is that you can't in reality deliver a solution that is simultaneously supporting male people's right to (be treated as if they have) become women and female people's right to treat them as if they have not.

It"s like agreeing to draw a aquare circle, or have a moonlight sunbathe. A person can say it til the cows come home and castigate people who challenge them to explsin how by caling them toxic and inflexible as if it's their problem a person is selling snake oil, but that doesn't change the fact that the person can never ever ever actually deliver it.

So suggesting they can, however pretty their words are, is not really measured or compassionate at all. It is patronising, manipulative and duplicitous. It's no different to Johnson's cakeism, and we all know how well that turned out.

Jane was 100% correct to burst the illusion Starmer was trying to get away with. In fact him treating her, and by extension all of us, like a fool is far ruder than her interrupting him to point that out.

Clabony · 30/06/2024 11:56

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/06/2024 11:52

Do you have comprehension problems“

No, Clabony, I don’t. Are you always so rude and angry?

See, there you go again. This obsession with RUDE, when someone picks you up on misrepresenting their views.
I'm not engaging further with you so don't @ me. I hope you and Walter have a lovely day.

ohdearz · 30/06/2024 11:56

TheKeatingFive · 30/06/2024 11:54

For the rest: as KS tried to say when not being constantly interrupted by our Jane: Labour will protect safe spaces for biological women

And that's a total fudge. Just so everyone's clear.

When a definition of 'biological women' can also include men with a certificate - which will be a piece of cake to get hold of.

When a definition of 'biological women' can also include men with a certificate

Nowhere have Labour said 'biological women' will include anyone with a GRC.

WickedSerious · 30/06/2024 11:57

ohdearz · 30/06/2024 11:51

Still the same handful of posters shouting in the wind, it's almost like they are in limbo, doomed to repeat the same lines over and over again however one might try to reason with them. Like someone said upthread if KS were to give in to their exact demands they would doubtlessly be disappointed because they would have nothing left to shout about. Luckily they will have no impact on the impending Labour majority.

For the rest: as KS tried to say when not being constantly interrupted by our Jane: Labour will protect safe spaces for biological women. Now chill.

I'll 'chill' when they clarify exactly what they mean by 'biological women'.

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/06/2024 11:57

Ok. No idea who Walter is but thank you, you too.

Riversideandrelax · 30/06/2024 11:59

EasternStandard · 30/06/2024 11:53

And? You having a go at Jane for not doing as you want doesn’t help

Why don’t you call up and speak as you feel is correct instead of tone policing

I'm not having a go at Jane, at all. I said I found it annoying as I would have liked to hear KS's response.

How am I tone policing? Jane can have any tone she likes. Just as I can be annoyed by it.

Why do you think women can't have an opinion on things?

FOJN · 30/06/2024 12:03

For the rest: as KS tried to say when not being constantly interrupted by our Jane: Labour will protect safe spaces for biological women. Now chill.

No he's trying to pull the wool over people's eyes. Safe spaces are not a legal concept so he can use that phrase as much as he likes, it means nothing. He will not commit to single sex spaces. He intends to make GRC's easier to obtain and allow men with GRC's into women's spaces. There is no requirement for any medical transition to obtain a GRC and only about 10% of trans identifying men have any surgery at all. The number who have their penis inverted is even smaller.

Here he is again, without interruption, avoiding the question.

x.com/addicted2newz/status/1807058069941027227

Zwicky · 30/06/2024 12:03

Listening to that programme could have helped me learn but I felt I didn't because I couldn't hear KS's response.

The clip with Jane’s call lasts 4.05 minutes. I’ve timed Keir’s uninterrupted talking time at 2.03 seconds - just over half the total duration, although I admit I could be +/- 10s out. If he can’t answer the question in 2.03 minutes then he can’t answer it at all imo. He shouldn’t have needed more than 20 seconds.

There is a point around the 2 min mark when I think him talking would be beneficial but generally the interruptions from both Jane and Nicky are because he is answering a completely different question or monologuing on something else.

He spends the majority of his answer time talking about his old job and about making it easier to get a GRC.

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/06/2024 12:04

I’d give up, Riversideandrelax. Differing opinions clearly aren’t permitted on this thread and anyone who has the temerity to suggest otherwise is clearly fair game for insults.

ohdearz · 30/06/2024 12:06

(GC posters googling furiously to seek proof that Labour means to include trans women with a GRC in the definition of a biological woman but they can't. Because Labour won't.)

I know some of you just can't let yourselves believe it but really, chill! It's OK. All shall be well. Have a wine. Raise a glass for the real, positive change that's coming!

ohdearz · 30/06/2024 12:07

allow men with GRC's into women's spaces

No he doesn't.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 30/06/2024 12:07

Zwicky · 30/06/2024 12:03

Listening to that programme could have helped me learn but I felt I didn't because I couldn't hear KS's response.

The clip with Jane’s call lasts 4.05 minutes. I’ve timed Keir’s uninterrupted talking time at 2.03 seconds - just over half the total duration, although I admit I could be +/- 10s out. If he can’t answer the question in 2.03 minutes then he can’t answer it at all imo. He shouldn’t have needed more than 20 seconds.

There is a point around the 2 min mark when I think him talking would be beneficial but generally the interruptions from both Jane and Nicky are because he is answering a completely different question or monologuing on something else.

He spends the majority of his answer time talking about his old job and about making it easier to get a GRC.

Very interesting! And inconvenient

GailBlancheViola · 30/06/2024 12:07

Labour will protect safe spaces for biological women. Now chill.

KS's typical slippery language - the question was about single sex spaces not safe spaces whatever the fuck they are, and KS will never elucidate on what they are.

No, I will not chill.

Riversideandrelax · 30/06/2024 12:07

JanefromLondon1 · 30/06/2024 11:54

Riversideandrelax glad I saved you listening to him give another non answer then.

I have sadly listened to him spout waffle about lots of topics but this one particularly and I wasn't going to give him a pass.

Maybe educate yourself by listening to his previous and subsequent replies to this question. I liked the one that mentioned the word penis the most, where he runs away without answering.

Ah, ok, fair enough.

I don't really know what you're getting at. I suppose politics isn't for the likes of me.

NoWordForFluffy · 30/06/2024 12:08

ohdearz · 30/06/2024 12:07

allow men with GRC's into women's spaces

No he doesn't.

Bridget Phillipson has said exactly this during the past week.

RebelMoon · 30/06/2024 12:09

Luckily they will have no impact on the impending Labour majority.

Unfortunately you're correct, Labour will win a major next week regardless of this issue. But when they fail to protect single sex spaces, and they will, don't expect us not to say I told you so.

ohdearz · 30/06/2024 12:10

NoWordForFluffy · 30/06/2024 12:08

Bridget Phillipson has said exactly this during the past week.

Exact quote please?

Riversideandrelax · 30/06/2024 12:11

MrsSkylerWhite · 30/06/2024 12:04

I’d give up, Riversideandrelax. Differing opinions clearly aren’t permitted on this thread and anyone who has the temerity to suggest otherwise is clearly fair game for insults.

Yes, I'm not keen on the aggression just because I expressed an opinion.

NoWordForFluffy · 30/06/2024 12:11

ohdearz · 30/06/2024 12:10

Exact quote please?

Google broken?

Edit for TwiX link as we're running out of posts.

x.com/fairplaywomen/status/1805374261764538423?s=46

GailBlancheViola · 30/06/2024 12:11

GC posters googling furiously to seek proof that Labour means to include trans women with a GRC in the definition of a biological woman but they can't. Because Labour won't.

No need to Google Labour absolutely does include transwomen with GRC's in the category of women.

ohdearz · 30/06/2024 12:12

NoWordForFluffy · 30/06/2024 12:11

Google broken?

Edit for TwiX link as we're running out of posts.

x.com/fairplaywomen/status/1805374261764538423?s=46

Edited

No, but if you refer to something the burden is on you to show evidence.

ohdearz · 30/06/2024 12:13

Where does it say anything about transwomen with a GRC being included in the definition of biological woman?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/06/2024 12:13

ohdearz · 30/06/2024 12:06

(GC posters googling furiously to seek proof that Labour means to include trans women with a GRC in the definition of a biological woman but they can't. Because Labour won't.)

I know some of you just can't let yourselves believe it but really, chill! It's OK. All shall be well. Have a wine. Raise a glass for the real, positive change that's coming!

Strawman

"Safe spaces" for biological women means spaces where biological women are (in theory) safe. It's not specifically single sex as long as you believe mixed sex spaces can be safe

So it can, and imo will, be defined as "spaces for biological women and biological men we deem to be women and therefore not a threat".

In other words, the ideological belief that "real" trans women exist, are never a threat, and can always be identified 100% reliably from fake transwomen.

FOJN · 30/06/2024 12:13

ohdearz · 30/06/2024 12:10

Exact quote please?

I've linked to the LBC and an article in the Telegraph. If they intend to keep men with GRC's out of women's spaces then why not say so.

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