To think my SIL is over the top for this?

[killingpeeve]

In short, my nephew has been found, alongside a few other boys, to be calling a girl 'butchy' butch. This is their nickname for her and they found it hilarious to call her this. SIL was called into the school by head of year. The boys got nothing but a slap on the wrist, in reality. We suspect because they're all Set 1 (top set) and still in process of doing their mocks.

SIL says this is not enough. And she is punishing my nephew by saying he isn't coming on the family holiday - Which is also the wedding of my sister.

BIL is backing her.

AIBU to think this is too much? By all means yes, the school have been to soft here as a consequence. But, surely this is too much?

It means missing his aunt getting married. She is really upset and cried on the phone to me about this.

Knowing SIL, she is very likely to follow through.

It would mean him staying with his nan. And she would continue onto the holiday as planned with BIL

High chance she will see this thread of course. But the family is really upset. It's a wedding.

You're making things up now, I read and understood her post and that was not what she meant. She was very clear her nephew and the boys were wrong and should be punished but somehow you're trying to paint the picture that she thinks it's ok because they fancy her when she never said that.

Agreed.

I can’t see my 21y boy doing this. But if he did, I would be absolutely furious. I am sure that he would be absolutely mortified too after and hate himself. We would come up with a punishment. But I know our intense disapproval and his own remorse would be significant and probably ‘enough’ His sister would kill him too.

Every kid is different of course.

I would not ruin a big family event and upset the bride and groom over this. No way. There is more than one way to teach a lesson.

I've been the girl in this situation. I'd be devastated if I thought it meant some stupid but otherwise OK boy in my class was being punished in a way that affected others that badly.

A hand-written apology would be so much more meaningful. And why did the school NOT punish further? Was it only a recent thing or go on for a couple of days or has it happened since September? If it were the latter it would've been dealt with before then. I suspect it was a week or so of (still nasty) thoughtless teasing. If the boys weren't suspended then the school clearly thought it was only worth a telling off or a school detention.

Your SIL will have to deal with the breakdown of the lovely relationship she apparently has with a kid who sounds pretty decent to me. I'd point out that he may never forgive her for not letting him attend his aunt's wedding - and neither will the family. If she wants to be hated for evermore then she's going about it the right way.

I had a student be this dumb once. We dealt with it and the students concerned had to apologize and got a School Detention from me for it. While some of the students' parents complained about my Draconian measures over a bit of fun, this student's Dad insisted on a Video Chat to discuss how poorly his son had behaved and how he was planning to further punish him because he thought his behaviour was abhorrent. The student hadn't been the main instigator so I told the Dad I thought he'd learnt his lesson. Dad took away X-Box etc. Which even he saw as enough. Your SIL is way over the top to the point I wouldn't be surprised if the school reported it as emotional abuse if she goes ahead.

We are a close family. My teens would have been devastated to miss this. They are at uni now and would be gutted even now.

I would be very sad if my niece missed something like this. I think some people have very stereotypical views on teens in this country and can’t understand the impact on close families.

As the mother of a child who has been bullied relentlessly with parents who do nothing I think your SIL sounds brilliant and he won’t do it again.

Agreed!

It's absolutely shit and lazy parenting to punish other people for your child's misdeeds. The two things have absolutely nothing to do with each other. What would SIL and her DH do if the wedding and/or holiday wasn't happening? They'd have to come up with something that didn't impact innocent bystanders, so whatever that would be in this case, is what they should do.

If it was just a normal family holiday, then leaving him behind might be an option, but seeing as it impacts other people (the engaged couple), then it shouldn't even be a consideration.

Plus, she paid half for the costs but my sister and her husband to be paid the rest. So it's not only the event, but also money she's wasting really

In your sister's shoes, I'd be absolutely livid that you were using my wedding as a means of punishing your child, because in the end, he's unlikely to care, and quite frankly, I wouldn't want you there either if you think my wedding day is something that can be weaponised. I'd also make you reimburse me for all the money I'd outlaid for you.

I had nasty things said to me at school and did end up with an eating disorder. My first reaction was well done to your sister in law, but in reflection a family wedding will promote a healthy view on relationship, love and respect. I would really be highlighting this to your nephew. . A letter is a tricky thing, she might be really embarrassed , but it does sound a good thing for him to do, but I'm still unsure who benefits.
discussing the impact of his actions with a few family members with whom he respects might be beneficial, he's still young himself and needs to know just being there and not standing up to friends is joining in .
My boy's are now in their 20s, I've had to pull them up several times on comments, it's on-going. Good luck

Personally i would make him stand outside the school with a board that says I'm a bully morning and evening that would make him think about picking on someone and give him a taste of how it feels. Not going on holiday dosent show him anything

Personally?
Punishment doesn't match the crime here.
Miss a hobby/socialising with his friends/tech/grounding etc - fair
One off family event - not fair

I would get him to do a research project on eating disorders in teenager and a SBI (situation, behaviour, impact) and then write an apology letter.

Ultimately her/thier children though and brother is backing/united front. Family as upset as they are don't really get a say.

As someone who was bullied relentlessly at school, good for your SIL. He might now learn he can’t do things like that

It doesn't matter what you think - he's not your son. It is down to his parents to hand down whatever punishment they seem fit.

If the girl and her parents are in agreement his mother should take him to make a face to face apology and to sit and listen whilst the girl explains how hurtful this is.

So, it’s not your wedding, and it’s not your son. Your brother, whose son you are concerned about, and his wife have agreed what they see as an appropriate punishment for a horrendous bit of bullying.

Firstly I don’t understand why you are criticising you SIL so vehemently when the decision is as much down to your brother. Secondly, I am sure they know their son better than you, no matter how close you think you are as a family. Thirdly, you don’t know, and nor is there any reason for them to involve you, how they intended it to play out. Maybe it’s a short sharp shock to hammer home to awfulness of the behaviour, but that they fully intended to back down nearer the time - if the son appeared to have fully take on board the seriousness of what he’s done. You, and others, interfering, will probably have taken that option off the table now though!!

I'm astounded that your SIL and brother themselves still want to attend a wedding where there seems to be so much family animosity towards them!! Are they going to be made miserable on their holiday by everyone blaming them for "ruining" the wedding ?? Are they to be punished and their holiday ruined by ill feeling and malice due to their parenting choices, which are theirs and theirs alone to make?? I think I'd be bypassing the wedding and going on a different holiday !! It seems in your family that it's OK to upset the parents but God forbid you upset a nasty malicious little bully!!

Homophobic comments are a hate crime, under the public order act. My son is currently being called 'gay' at school, and this is having a significant impact on his emotional state. School haven't been the most responsive and I have referred the case to police. Good on her for putting the boundaries in. Being the parent of the bullied child is really hard, for us experiencing behaviour issue and is really distressing for all involved.

Bullying is awful and the long term impact on the child is awful. Terrible response from the school.

I initially thought your sister was right to crack down hard on her son but it was the wrong punishment. However I went straight from your thread to this one

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/bullying/5110826-how-can-i-help-my-daughter-who-is-being-ridiculed

not your nephew obviously but similar in that a bunch of boys are bullying a girl and making her life awful to the point she doesn’t want to go to school anymore. When you read about the damage done to the girls involved in these types of incidents then I’m not sure your SIL has got it wrong.

Are you yourself, using the word 'butchy' to mean lesbian?

"my nephew has been found, alongside a few other boys, to be calling a girl 'butchy' butch."

So did your nephew called her butch? Or did he call her butchy butch?

Because if you are using the word butchy yourself to describe a teenage girl, as it reads to me, that's pretty shit of you and suggests your own homophobia may be why you're willing to excuse your nephew's bullying.

Just for balance my DDs life was made a misery by a group of girls bullying her, the boys in her class were incredibly supportive.

@Iwasafool i didn’t mean to imply that only boys can bully. Girls can be equally as horrible and have just as devastating an impact on their victim. I just felt that the post I highlighted has many similarities to the OP’s but from the other side and the impact on the bullies target was worth considering when commenting on whether the OP’s SIL’s punishment was over the top.

Absolutely awful behaviour, good on your sil for cracking down since the school seems to have been useless but I do think the punishment doesn't fit the crime. If it was just a regular holiday sure but not for a wedding, the bride and groom haven't done anything, went punish them too?

I agree with @knockyknees that weaponising the wedding is unfair and honestly if it were me I'd be devastated not only that he's not coming but that my wedding had been used like this! And I think it's good for teens to have a lot of family time even if they think it's boring lol. It's also unconnected, they're better off setting him to research and write an essay on the impacts of bullying with current stats etc.

Ultimately, frustrating as it is, your SIL her rules though

I know that I'm late to the tread but he's not a "good boy" he's a nasty misogynistic bully who needs to learn that he can't treat women and girls like that and that won't happen with people like you making excuses for him.

It's heartening to see people keeping things into perspective and not over-reacting completely over school incident. 😂

Your SIL is amazing! Behaviour like this should be ounished... A 14 year old boy threatened to rape my 12 year old daughter on the way home from school and the school punishment was a 2 day suspension, his parents did nothing apart from tell me he was a good Christian boy and he shouldn't be punished by missing out on his education. I was and still am fuming!

YABU

Your SIL is amazing, I wish all parents were like this.

But he is generally a really good kid

No he isn't if he thinks it's hilarious to gang up on a girl with his mates calling her 'butch'.