To ask if its fair that inclusivity has excluded my DC from their hobby?

[DImplesandCheese]

TLDR: ND child is causing my DC to quit much loved hobby as ND child's behaviour is ruining it for them.

Full Story: DC (13) attended a hobby/club and has done for years. 2 years ago a new child joined. The child is ND and their particular behaviours include shouting out, not listening, inappropriate use of kit and refusal to fully participate in activities. DC has complained on and off since this child joined that it is spoiling it. I have encouraged DC to be understanding and supportive, I have spoken with the staff at the club to ask if more support for this child can be put in place. Nothing has changed.

Part of the club involves some unsupervised time and this is DC's favourite part of the club. The last two unsupervised sessions have been completely ruined by this child's behaviour, the group have had to call staff for help to sort it out and therefore their final result for the session has been effected. 2 months ago after the last ones of these sessions I spoke with staff and asked why this child doesn't have a 1 to 1 support/parent staying with them as this is hugely effecting everyone else's enjoyment and I was told that my DC is exaggerating and 'fixating' on this child.

DC came home last night as said he's quitting. This child has wrecked the night's activity again. I spoke to the staff and was told that they 'are an inclusive club and they pride themselves in being open to all' and hinted that DC leaving may well be for the best if he's not happy.

I have 2 ND DC, I get the difficulties, I get that they should have access to clubs and activities, I get that allowances need to be made for their behaviour. I am in no way suggesting the child should be kicked out but surely if you have children leaving because of another child then the support in place for that child isn't right?

AIBU to think that more should be done to support this child correctly so DC can continue to enjoy their hobby and that my DC having to leave is not an acceptable situation?

it doesn’t seem as if ‘inclusivity’ has driven your DC away, more specifically it is the club organisers inability/unwillingness to resource up/address the impact /assist those who need more support appropriately. YANBU to be disappointed.

As your child is planning on quitting anyway would there be any mileage in saying to the club that, actually, you agree that your child is ‘fixating’ on the other child and given this combined with the fact that they have several neurodiverse siblings you now suspect they may have previously unknown neurodiversity themself? So therefore, given how inclusive you know the club to be, you would like to know what the club’s plan will be to support your child in their need for quiet to listen to the instructions and an uninterrupted group experience.

Your dc doesn’t ‘have’ to leave though. They’re choosing to.

What is it about the ND child’s behaviour that’s affecting your dc? Verbal stims, differences in approach, impulse control issues, and attention differences shouldn’t impact your dc? Unless the child is doing something TO your dc? But it sounds from what you say as though your dc is just having difficulty tolerating difference, which is something you and they need to work on, and doesn’t mean that a ND DC should have a 1:1.

It also sounds as though the club are saying your dc is exaggerating.

If the DC wasn’t able to participate safely, that’s one thing, but it sounds as though all they are doing is displaying ND behaviours?

I had this thought too. Could your child be ND and having difficulty coping with the other DC not following the rules? My ND DC get very agitated about rules not being followed.

I agree with you OP and really feel for your DC. The problem is that you can't speak to other parents to see if their DC feel the same as this will look like ganging up. Surely this child's parent knows that this is an issue? I am surprised they are not asked to support their DC.

I think all you can do is try and find another group. Also if you're asked by other parents why you're leaving then you need to be honest.

Is this particular child also ND and struggling or were you referring to other children of yours? Even if this child is not ND, they may struggle if they also have siblings at home who may or may not present differently.

Seems from what the OP has said, that this child is being extremely disruptive and does not have a 1-1 support or other staff member with them to supervise, or prevent them from spoiling things for the other kids.

That is not fair on the other children. They should not have to tolerate someone else ruining their club evenings. The ND child should not be left to run amok, which is what is happening at the moment.

Unless you’ve left out a lot in your OP then your child doesn’t have to leave. He's not being attacked, bullied, hurt or prevented from taking part himself. He’s choosing to leave because from the sounds of it he finds the other child very annoying. Other child not fully participating or shouting out doesn’t stop your child from enjoying the session if he chooses to just get on with it.

I’d expect staff to step in if the other child’s behaviour was dangerous, but I think it’s completely unfair to expect a parent to stay in the circumstances you describe - no 13 year old wants Mummy staying or to be “othered” in that way. A couple of incidents where staff have had to get involved, over a two year period, really doesn’t sound like he needs 1:1.

Bottom line is it’s up to the club how it runs (discrimination aside) and it sounds like the adults who are actually present have made a decision about children’s behaviour and support needs. I don’t know why you think you know better. If I was the parent of the other child I’d be livid.

i will definitely not be lying that my DC is ND to get the club to change! what a terrible suggestion!

DC isn't ND, has absolutely no behaviours that would indicate any ND at all.

They live with ND siblings so are well aware of understanding and accommodations for people with different needs.

If it was just the frustrations from instructions being talked over and kit being misused then I think DC would be ok. The thing that is spoiling it for him is the child's refusal to join in/complete the set tasks during 'staff free activities' which means the whole team 'fails' or at the very least doesn't complete or achieve what they should be able to.

Let's take an example like scavaenger hunt - this child will refuse to agree with the plan the whole team has agreed with at the last minute so plans have to be changed (route/who is completing tasks etc). They will wander off with bits of kit, swing it around, leave it on the floor. They will not try their best in their allocated task (that they have chosen) so it is incomplete or badly done. They will refuse to continue the route until staff are called. This is in addition to the standard stimming of repeating phrases, makimng loud noises and not listening. DC (and others in the group) are feeling there is no point trying as all plans will be ruined by this child.

The club should definitely be supervising but (unless staff are just lazy) they seem to have a different perspective on what is going on.

Either way I would focus my energy on finding a different club where my child could pursue their interest.

to answer a few more points - there have been probably 5-6 major events that have been spoiled for DC over the 2 years. this is not counting that the child's behaviours every week are challenging and annoying.

If my ND child was causing a group/team not to be able to complete their activities properly/correctly I would expect to be asked to stay with them to support them/take them out f the situation if they were being too disruptive. I expect accommodations for them but not to the fundemental detriment of the rest of the group.

The club seems to be of the opinion that the rest of the group should just accept that 'they are only as strong as their weakest member' - which is fine up to a point. Getting a slower time on the hike because you have 2 younger members who can't walk so fast is one thing. Failing to complete because you have one who refuses to carry on walking feels like taking this mantra too far.

Sometimes in life, things don't run exactly the way we want them to, because there are other people in society who we have to make compromises for and who need extra support. It can be annoying for those who are more able - but that's the way it is. This could be a good learning opportunity for your child about inclusivity, positivity and resilience.

The first thing I'd do as a parent is obviously talk to the club about the child needing extra support - which you've done already - but perhaps they don't have the resources to put more support in place, but don't want to exclude a child.

Either way, it's a good lesson to learn that when things aren't happening the way you want them to, you don't just throw up your arms and leave. Help your child to problem solve.

What could your child's team do in the situation where this child is running off with kit/ throwing stuff around? Can one of them run and tell the activity leader? Do they know why the child is behaving this way? Is something triggering it? Is there anything your child/ the other children could do to help this child feel more involved and engaged?

I obviously can't tell you the solution without knowing the exact situation and the individual kids - but I would definitely be seeing this as a good opportunity to teach all of the kids about how a good group/ society might function to help and support and accept each other.

If the child is ND then that's not really any different to being less able for any other reason.

Weetabbix

Either way, it's a good lesson to learn that when things aren't happening the way you want them to, you don't just throw up your arms and leave. Help your child to problem solve.

It isn't the child's problem to solve,

What could your child's team do in the situation where this child is running off with kit/ throwing stuff around? Can one of them run and tell the activity leader? Do they know why the child is behaving this way? Is something triggering it? Is there anything your child/ the other children could do to help this child feel more involved and engaged?

The OP has said that the groups has already had to go to the organisers and they have done nothing.

DC has been trying to solve the problem for 2 years! it's not improving. I help run a local youth group - this child would have either one of us as a 1to1 or a parent asked to stay if they were in our group.

Surely it comes a point where you have made all the accommodations you can and your have to accept that it isn't working? but why should it be my DC who has to leave a hobby he loves because the right support isn't in place? that feels wrong.

With hobbies, you will generally find that there are some clubs that are about enjoyment and some clubs that are about performance.

So for example, I am in a community choir. It's funded by money for developing the community and welcomes everyone whether they can sing or not. There are a lot of ND people there and a lot of physically disabled people including me. We all accept that people need reminding and take time to learn things because fundamentally it's not about the singing it's about the community.

There are other choirs where you have to audition to join and the standard is very high and if you miss rehearsals you are out.

And there's lots in between.

Sounds like your current club is more like my community choir - it's about taking part. Sounds like your DC wants one that is more about the competition.

So he should probably change club, not because of the other boy but because he wants a different ethos.

Let him quit. Not because of the ND child, but because the leaders are useless.

exactly this.

Being ND is not an excuse for being a disturbance. It's not fair on anyone, and it's not fair on the ND child who is missing the right support anyway.
I wonder if the parents are even aware, that the child is not participating, is clearly not enjoying himself and is ruining it for everyone else. The OP's child is not the only one who is suffering.

it's a hobby, it should not be that hard. Kids have to be supportive at school all day, they are all allowed to have a break.

Just tell him to get on with the activity as if the other kid isn't there. He clearly doesn't want to join in with that part, and the other kids trying to push him to probably isn't helping and is pointless. Get them to focus on their activity and unless the kid asks to join in then leave him to walk away and the adults to watch him

It sounds like this could be Scouts. Could your son join another nearby Scout group instead?

DC's friends are all at this club, there isn't another one of this type within easy reach.

It's not that he wants to be competitive, he wants to relax and enjoy the activities without having to constantly battle against this level of disruption.

It sounds as if your child is the only one complaining. If staff don't have a problem with supporting this child and other children aren't affected, then your DC is the one with the problem. Could you provide more support for your child? It doesn't matter if they're ND or not, they're not coping in this situation. If you speaking to them hasn't improved things could you attend and give your child one to one support so they remain focused on what they enjoy rather than this other child?

I disagree that it isn't (partly) the child's problem to solve.

Obviously, all people with disabilities should be supported and it sounds like this child needs a support worker with them - that would be the ideal scenario. But that hasn't happened, and it's a shame if either kid has to give up his hobby because of it, so what else can be done?

This is a 13 year old, not a very young child - they are going to come across situations and people like this throughout their life. We all encounter these types of scenarios, where something we want to do cannot quite run to plan/ we can't do what we'd like to do because of someone else. It's frustrating. But the way to handle it is to think what can be done to help everyone have fun, rather than just leave.

It's an opportunity for 13 year old to learn how to confront the world and other people in a mature, resilient and understanding way, rather than just saying "X is SPOILING it for me".

Obviously I'm not saying it's his responsibility to sort the whole thing out, but it's a good opportunity for him to learn something about society and empathy.

Sadly this happened in one of dd clubs...the club has now folded. The staff member (volunteer) asked if the child mum could attend too and was told no as they should include her dd and not exclude her. Her dd was a flight risk and the three volunteers struggled then one said couldn't do it anymore and by then they couldn't do the activity and sadly the group closed. If the child mum had gone as a 1:1 this group still be going on. I understand op. I feel sorry for the staff members especially if they volunteers