To think modern parenting has rendered us helpless?

[bustroubles]

I need to stress here I’m not advocating a return to smacking or anything like that. It’s horrible. Equally though I do sometimes wonder …

I suppose modern parenting hasn’t rendered you helpless if your child cares about sanctions but mine doesn’t. He’s three and I am mindful I don’t remember being three but I don’t think I was like this?

This morning he started throwing still damp clothes out of the drier. Told to stop over and over. Ignored me then ran off laughing. I’m just feeling helpless and a bit of a twat. I’ve no consequence he cares about, and time out isn’t recommended, smacking (which I’m positive my parents would have done to me in that instance) is illegal.

Maybe I have a particularly obstinate one but I don’t know … feeling a bit about it all. I know everyone will tell me what I did wrong but really I’m asking something deeper than that, if we’re just helpless now and reliant on our children’s good will?

Did you pick him up and remove him from the area of the drier? That is what I would have done. Not sure if it is the best way but if he weren’t listening to me I would physically remove him.

I have a three year old, they don't care. They don't have shame yet. Eldest was even worse, although she at least behaved at nursery.

I do a lot of "If you don't come to the bathroom by three I'm going to take teddy X. One... Two..." I don't often get to three as otherwise she'd have nothing to play with but I do often enough that the threat is real iykwim. The count usually works.

Doubtless an unpopular approach on MN, but when she's in that mood she just doesn't listen to nice, calm explanations about how we need to get ready in the morning. I follow up with that stuff once she's calmed down.

But yeah, three year olds are feral, don't worry about it.

Remove him from the room and stop him getting in there again.

Baby gate may be useful.

Very few people remember being three but ages two-three are peak tantrums and annoyingness.

no - I was holding my other child but I also know from experience it turns it into a fabulous game where he keeps running in and emptying it whereas if I just put the clothes back it doesn’t, sort of minimising it but I do worry that without a firm consequence he’s just going to keep doing those sorts of things.

He won't, he'll grow up. Doesn't mean you won't want to strangle him repeatedly in the meantime though!

@CelesteCunningham thanks yeah all my friends with children the same age are having similar struggles! It’s a very challenging age. I just find myself stressing a lot as he feels out of control in some contexts and to my shame I used to scoff at posts like this and now … here I am 👀

No, I think many 3 year-olds were always like that. Some are naturally pretty biddable even at that age, and among the rest, some have learned more self-awareness and cooperating skills by 3 and quite a lot haven't.

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. Sometimes when my children are driving me up the wall I wish I could give into my instincts/return to how I was raised as I'm sure they'd be more obedient. However then I remember that I've had therapy and still don't really like my mother and that's usually enough to placate me that the way we're doing it will hopefully lead to more well rounded adults who want to spend time with me later on!! Also we did start out that way with DS, we had no emotional regulation and we were all fighting eachother. It made him more willful and angry. Makes sense really, he was following the role models he had. That's just my experience though.

It's hard when they're 3, they can be terrors. My second is nearly 3 and she's tough. But we're using the techniques from How to Talk So Little Kids will Listen and Calmer Happier Easier Parenting which were so helpful with DS. He is now just one of my absolute favourite people on the planet. He's kind, helpful, he listens most of the time, he wants to do things for others. We switched the mood of the house from consequences to noticing and praising good behaviour, which has also made me feel much more content and positive overall with life and our family. The house is rarely shouty now. We're a team.

Would recommend them, it's a long term project, but genuinely no regrets.

Give him a job of throwing dirty clothes in laundry. I used distraction and keep them busy and lots of play. All behaviour is communication, it really is.

If very bold which honestly was very rare I put their teddy on time out, my youngest is ten so a while ago.

I wasn't, nor my late mother were ever slapped so going back 76 years. We managed to grow up well adjusted with the odd rebellious streak.

Take him out of the room. Stand against the closed door (still holding other child) and talk to him about something else.

A mixture of distraction and preventing him from doing the thing you've told him not to.

Three year olds are difficult. Wait till he's four and telling you all the school rules like his teacher is magic or something!

YABU, there are many, many options about parenting, just choose one to try for the current situation.

time out worked fine for me with one DC, for example, but not the other. DC1 was messy and destructive and never got bored of repeated ‘games’, was tedious. Had to find physical ways to keep DC1 away from things and to get tasks done, eg gate on bedroom door. DC1 is still messy as a teen!

They aren't any more obedient if they are smacked by the way.

In other countries/in the past you get posts like
"My child doesn't care if I smack him, how can I make him behave?"

www.quora.com/How-do-you-punish-a-child-who-doesnt-care-about-being-spanked#:~:text=If%20being%20spanked%20or%20the,not%20work%20for%20every%20child.

Evidence: my mother!

My DD was brilliant, I could do those calm chats and come to a mutual agreement that she was being unreasonable.

No such luck with DS, he's a whirlwind. All he cares about is immediate fun. No discussions will help, no punishment helps.

I wouldn't be doing sanctions at 3, but calm explaining and empathising. They're just learning and it's up to us to show them the way. If you have a 'spirited child' 😉, I did, the sanctions etc will often only seem funny/rile them up further.

I heard a mother in the changing room yesterday. Three kids in tow, brave. Constant reminders of the promised hot chocolate afterwards and then constant warnings of not getting one 'I mean it' 'There won't be a hot choc' etc. Honestly, I think it's the feeling of need to sanction that makes you feel helpless as small children don't care. Hold the boundary, physically if necessary (close the dryer) but I'd not bother with sanctions. Mine are 12 and nearly 9 now and now 12 yo gets sanctions if needed, 8yo has never had a sanction, but is easiest child ever so I just got lucky there.

That's really interesting!! Thanks for sharing. I always just think about how humiliated I used to feel if I was slapped and therefore how much I'd try to avoid it and sometimes do think it would be easier if my kids had a bit more of that in them. However it's usually a fleeting moment during a meltdown and I don't give in to it as on balance it's definitely not the kind of household I want for us.

Age three is a horrible age for naughtiness but if you don't handle it correctly then you set yourself up for trouble later on.

If they won't listen then remove the child (not the item). Every single time. After the first few times of explaining why etc etc, you don't talk to them, you don't make eye contact, you just physically lift them up and remove them.

I don’t realise time out wasn’t recommend anymore? Mine are 12 and 9 now but had to sit on the bottom step of the stairs for a certain amount of time. If they got up I just put them back. My son would stay but my daughter had to repeatedly be put back. It was painful but worth it.

I agree though that too much parenting seems to be based on goodwill. Which is ridiculous.

You Just need to be firm he is checking boundaries you need to give him them, I do think you can do that without smacking. My eldest is 31 I never smacked. 3 year olds are exhausting and it sounds like you are struggling which isn't unusual with toddlers I don't think that's anything to do with modern parenting just parenting in general.

I’m confused as to why you say “time out isn’t recommended “?

My eldest is 12 and I remember reading time out was an 'emotional slap', in a years old book, when he was a baby. Written by a child psychologist, so not completely new thinking. Glad I didn't do it, I just know ds1 one would have been a nightmare doing that. I empathised, I stated boundary, I removed and distracted if needed. He wasn't perfect, small children are not, and I wasn't either. Looking back without the neurosis of doing it all the 'right way', I think do what suits you and your child to get through but sanctions don't seem to be working for you op so I'd change it.

I think Time out is fine isn't it ? You are just removing them from 1 situation to another so they can calm down and re set themselves,
little kids can't regulate emotions very well so a "time out" just decompresses the chaos. I can remember the "naughty step" I'd never do that personally, but a time out is OK imo.

I think this is where I worry - if I did what @CharlotteCollinsneeLucas suggests he’d be determined to get in. There are two doors to the kitchen so he’d be running to the other one laughing his head off. It does sometimes feel a bit like the more you try to firmly impose a boundary the more determined he is to break it. I mean ideally he’d have put the clothes back but you tell him to, he ignores you so what do you do then? 😱

Thanks @Squashinthepinkcup . I have read that first book and I didn’t really find it very helpful, some stuff in there can backfire massively 😂 and I do think the authors haven’t come across a child just absolutely hell bent on what they want! I tried one of the techniques the other day and DS just ignored me. I haven’t read the other one but I think I do find generally parenting books and suggestions … there’s some good ones but often it’s only workable with one child - I know I was reading one which said you uphold the boundary by physically lifting your child out of the park or wherever if they refuse to come. But if you have two children refusing to come and they’re both up the climbing frame … how?!

meh. he's 3. first child? be the parent you want to be that will bring up the person you want your small child to grow into (funny how you immediately went to smacking for "old fashioned" parenting)

don't smack.

Consistency and clarity is the way to go. and age appropriate.

Is there a difference between time out and naughty step, apart from the name? I'd have seen them as the same. Unless it's the adult taking the time out, which is more than fair!!

This sounds like really normal three year old behaviour! My two pence worth... I do a mixture of consequences, boundaries, and redirection.

Consequences are "natural" or related consequences whenever possible (e.g. you're throwing a toy, the toy is removed etc), but when not possible, they have a reward chart which is an empty photo frame with some big foam stars in it. They get a star for good behaviour but I will also remove a star for bad behaviour. When the frame is full they get a treat of some kind. They don't like losing a star so once established even the warning of losing one is often enough.

Boundaries just involve making it impossible for them to do the unwanted behaviour, so in this case putting a child lock on the drier, removing them from the room, blocking off the kitchen/utility with a baby gate etc. If the boundary is frustrating to them (i.e. they want to get in the kitchen) then tbh at this age good, they are old enough to understand that their failure to follow instructions led to the boundary, and when they have shown they can follow instructions we can try again with the gate open etc etc.

Redirection really does help but takes a bit more patience imo, which I don't always have! But I try, so e.g. in this case, "we don't throw the wet clothes but you're doing some really good throwing! How about if I set this empty box up here and give you these bean bags, can you throw them into the box? Here's your start line..." etc. It's a distraction but it's also showing them a good outlet for their impulses, see also "we don't hit people but you can hit this drum" etc.

Best of luck, three year olds are... fun!! 😬😅