To think modern parenting has rendered us helpless?

[bustroubles]

I need to stress here I’m not advocating a return to smacking or anything like that. It’s horrible. Equally though I do sometimes wonder …

I suppose modern parenting hasn’t rendered you helpless if your child cares about sanctions but mine doesn’t. He’s three and I am mindful I don’t remember being three but I don’t think I was like this?

This morning he started throwing still damp clothes out of the drier. Told to stop over and over. Ignored me then ran off laughing. I’m just feeling helpless and a bit of a twat. I’ve no consequence he cares about, and time out isn’t recommended, smacking (which I’m positive my parents would have done to me in that instance) is illegal.

Maybe I have a particularly obstinate one but I don’t know … feeling a bit about it all. I know everyone will tell me what I did wrong but really I’m asking something deeper than that, if we’re just helpless now and reliant on our children’s good will?

How old is the other child?

Are teenagers / young adults less trouble these days? What are the mental heath statistics like?
I’m old ( 61 ) so my kids are adults now, I never smacked them, but I know a few people who did smack their children back then.
I can’t really see a difference in society tbh, if anything it seems young people are more violent. But maybe that’s due to other factors? I don’t know. The internet? Drugs?

I'm 35 and was never hit/smacked/tapped as a child, ever. My parents would shout sometimes, in the moment, but were mostly "firm but fair" parents. I obviously don't remember being 3 but I remember being told off and as I got older I remember them giving me some freedom with clear boundaries etc.

I think your example is a bit "meh" to be honest op - he's 3 and ok yeah he was being silly and cheeky, but he wasn't violent, rude or doing anything remotely dangerous. Maybe do a sticker chart or something, so if he helps he gets a sticker but if he messes about make it clear he isn't getting one for this instance because he just messed about, but maybe he'll get one later for helping with something properly? My son is older, almost 4.5 - I'm not sure if that would have worked at 3 but it's definitely showing positive signs now.

Also, time outs are ok as long as it's not a big "shame" type thing, I think? Weirdly we've never consciously done them but my son has, from a very young age, taken to going behind a sofa or to his room when really upset/angry and will often have a few minutes kicking off (while we remind him we're here for him when he's ready) then just re-appearing having calmed down/cheered up.

I agree with this and the other poster who mentioned it's probably time/attention they're bothered about, not possessions etc, especially at that young age.

God yes the repeating the rule/expectations over and over. It does work though op, honest! Just waiting until they start reminding YOU how to behave 🤣

I find your post incredibly honest OP and that is very refreshing.

I seem to see more and more parents who appear exactly how you are describing dealing with their kids behaviour.

Disciplining is either a scary minefield or something that is deemed very bad to do and parents are frightened to do.

I believe this leads to children who grow up feeling they are ruling the roost and teenagers who are lost between the sense of entitlement that they can do what they want and getting involved in things they are not yet able to manage and the deep feeling of wish that they were still little kids with parents who make the decisions for them and as such keep them safe.

Disciplining a young child is not just about teaching them boundaries and respecting others. It's also about giving them the reassuring boundaries that they don't have to be on control and that they are trusted and reliable parents do do that for them.

Of course kids will kick in, argue, fight, have tantrums when disciplined but that doesn't mean they are not aware, deep inside, that it actually make them feel safe.

I think the reason smacking was ever a thing was a case of needing the shortest possible route to discipline. When families had ten children, and there weren't the washing machines, dishwashers, kitchen gadgets etc we have today, threat of a smack was the most simple, time-efficient method.

Janet Lansbury is very good on all this OP, and you can either listen or read her pieces. She emphasises the importance if your calm and also you being breezy, unbothered as you know you're the leader and in charge and dc won't be getting his way.

https://www.janetlansbury.com/2014/07/4-toddler-testing-behaviors-and-how-to-cope/

Here's an example but if you Google her you'll find so many articles. She is brilliant on toilet learning - neither of mine were 'trained'and it was easy easy and stress free for me. She is really good.

https://www.janetlansbury.com/2021/07/when-your-child-keeps-ignoring-boundaries-and-breaking-rules-try-this/

https://www.janetlansbury.com/2023/11/our-strong-willed-child-is-running-the-show/

In these cases I ask myself, What do I see? What could it be? What do they need from me?

It helps me to objectivfy the behaviour so I'm less triggered, get curious about what need isn't being met or what they need, then problem solve to meet the need more appropriately.

So in that case...is it and attempt connection or play? A misguided attempt at helping? A power test? A need to throw or move something? Or testing a response from you to see if it is the same as before?

Distraction, and narrating what I see are my go to.

I wonder if you need a cuddle as you're trying to get me to look at you?

Or

Hey, can you find 2 pairs of trousers?

He doesn't need a consequence, he needs a grown up to connect the dot for him and show him how to ask for what he needs in a different way.

I read the first one and I’m not sure what she’s saying. I must be missing something.

What do you mean?

I didn't see kids being smacked at all where I live when my kids were little. (Now 17 and 19) Something I've noticed is that teenagers are kinder and less bullying than when I was a kid. They are more tolerant of differences too.

Please can we put smacking to bed as an option? It is illegal here in Ireland BTW. I was never smacked and never had any behavioural difficulties, flew through school etc. Never in trouble. Meanwhile, I would bet the majority of people in prison were smacked so the idea that all the problems today are because we're not smacking, doesn't add up. Disaffection, lack of connection, real quality time, laughter and joy and being validated etc, this is what is important. As they grow, hear them out, let them make no loss decisions, don't shout too much, think the best of them, name their feelings when they can't, set limits and boundaries so they feel safe and know their adults are the ones in charge.

Imvhe, when very young children see you holding their younger sibling, it seems to impel them to do something to capture your attention. It's especially effective if it's something that needs you to put the baby down to sort out.

I honestly don't know what she’s suggesting to deal with that child (the one who laughs when you tell them to get down from a table.)

I did have to skim it a bit as I have two very young ones with me but I couldn’t see any solutions or suggestions.

"He doesn't need a consequence, he needs a grown up to connect the dot for him and show him how to ask for what he needs in a different way."

Sometimes, but not always. Because children can not always have what they want, and that includes your attention at that moment.

I think modern parenting is rubbish in general. Encourages navel gazing, mitigates against every negative feeling, the kid clicks their fingers and the parent jumps to attention for fear of ‘traumatising’ them. Our local Facebook page is a classic example - ‘my kid just said they want to see giraffes, where can I go today within a 2 hour drive that has giraffes’. Totally nuts.

And teenagers! If I’d spoken to my parents the way teens on here speak to their parents, holy hell I can’t even imagine what the consequences would’ve been. Hence I didn’t do it!

I mean it all sounds great on paper but if it worked we wouldn’t be seeing the most aggressive, entitled, rude, and generally horrendous behaviour in kids and teens yet. Which is sadly almost uniformly reported by teachers and early years professionals.

ach come on. There have always been really badly behaved kids, hence why reform schools and Borstals once existed. I’m not in favour of some sort of return to smacking, sarcasm, downright cruelty - but I’d like some honest narrative around the fact that a lot of the techniques pushed are no more than ‘don’t do that or I’ll tell you not to do that again,’

I massively agree with this. Al this ‘move them away, distract them’ means they never find out what they did wrong so it sets them up to fail really.

Not to this extent. Ask anybody who has been teaching 30 years. Hop over to the Staffroom board and have a read.

I teach myself. It’s not what I’ve personally found to be the case but we’re all different and have different experiences.

I can assure you though that 25 years ago teachers were told to fuck off, were physically assaulted, were insulted, kids would refuse to complete work, would throw pens you gave them across the room.

Interestingly a lot of super strict academies also draw criticism (Michaela and the like) so not really sure what the answer is. It isn’t smacking though.

Totally agree. The two methods seem to be, move them away from whatever they are doing or distract them with a toy or similar. For most children this works for a small amount of time when they are tiny. But you soon it no longer works.

And I will tell you to stop, you might or might not stop, and I will tell you again until one of us gives up. And again this works sometimes for some children and all the time for more biddable children, but leaves lots of children who totally ignore what their parent says and do what they want to do.