To think modern parenting has rendered us helpless?

[bustroubles]

I need to stress here I’m not advocating a return to smacking or anything like that. It’s horrible. Equally though I do sometimes wonder …

I suppose modern parenting hasn’t rendered you helpless if your child cares about sanctions but mine doesn’t. He’s three and I am mindful I don’t remember being three but I don’t think I was like this?

This morning he started throwing still damp clothes out of the drier. Told to stop over and over. Ignored me then ran off laughing. I’m just feeling helpless and a bit of a twat. I’ve no consequence he cares about, and time out isn’t recommended, smacking (which I’m positive my parents would have done to me in that instance) is illegal.

Maybe I have a particularly obstinate one but I don’t know … feeling a bit about it all. I know everyone will tell me what I did wrong but really I’m asking something deeper than that, if we’re just helpless now and reliant on our children’s good will?

I teach 3 and 4 year olds. If someone is doing something they shouldn’t, first off I would ‘no thank you, we don’t throw sand, it might hurt someone’s eyes’. If they persisted I would use a sharper tone of voice ‘I said no thank you, let’s find something else to do’ then I’d take them away by the hand. They know I mean it, so usually all good. For those who don’t respond to that there is a ‘thinking chair’. The child sits down and we say what we’re not happy with.

I think you need to say why we don’t do certain things, some children enjoy the challenge of pushing the boundaries. But be consistent and be firm and clear.

Agree with saying name first and short statements. Children can’t process long winded language at 3.

Would a time out work though?
worth a try if you can be consistent with it.
It sounds like its so hard because once you’ve told him not to that’s it and he knows nothing will happen if he doesn’t do what you say.

What is the consequence? What does he love? Toys? TV? Tablet? You have to remove whatever works or have a reward chart and build on that - DS1 had meltdowns with time out so we stopped that and now he has a reward chart - needs lots of ticks - one for morning and one for afternoons and if he gets one x that’s ok but 2 in the week is no pocket money and 3 is no treat on the last day - it works for him and those are things he wants. We also remove tv time and tablet.

Another fan of the how to talk so kids will listen book and also 123 magic. I just picked and chose bits that i felt worked for me.

Is a while ago for me, but i remember one thing was saying 'please dont do that' from another room wasnt very effective, because if you really meant it you would have gone in, got down to his level and said it very clearly. I realised i gave a lot of instructions from elsewhere whilst something else had my focus.

Say very firmly 'Stop that now' and physically remove the clothes from him and take him away from the drier. Then distract with something else. If you can't outwit a 3 year old, you need to up your game. You're in charge. Have clear consistent expectations and consequences and stick to them every single time. Three year olds are meant to test the boundaries, that's normal. It's your job to show him where the boundaries are and what the consequences are if he crosses them.

I like you OP, I think we'd be friends IRL

Agree wholeheartedly.

I sympathise with you OP. Something that often strikes me when I see parents managing their child's behaviour is that it's obvious to me that they expect to be ignored. If I can tell that they have no confidence that their instructions will be followed then I'm sure that their children can as well. Not an easy or instant solution but I suggest that you channel your inner Maggie Smith( or any strong woman you can use as a role mode!) and concentrate on believing that you have this. I know it's not easy if your child is running around and making a lot of noise but try and corner them, get down to their level and believe with every ounce of your being that that the short, unambiguous instruction you are going to give in a calm, low tone will be obeyed. In the case of clothes and drier I suggest "hands down" so he drops the clothes and "stand there" whilst you deal with the clothes on the floor.

Good luck.I also think things will improve as he gets older and can understand consequences and other people's feelings better.

We had a thinking spot in our home and a timer to watch. A minute for every year of age. In your position I would have removed him, brought him to the thinking spot, explained that he needed to think about why he had been placed there and turned over his giant egg timer. When I returned three minutes later we would discuss it and ensure he understood why it is unacceptable behaviour. His behaviour will not improve without consequences … so yes it may be a ‘time out’ but it gives everyone concerned the headspace to think and stay calm.

It sounds like pent up energy to me. My boys needed to get out running around or swimming or playing with friends in the park everyday . They were playing team sports by about four or five. If we stayed in for too long they’d start bouncing around and getting naughty. I can’t remember how many balls that i put in the bin ( hid) cos they were playing with them in the house, still got an ornament that they smashed and quietly stuck back together. I pretended i hadn’t noticed it still makes me smile now they’re grown men.

Just remember you’ll look back and smile at this in the future. I regret not having written stuff like this down when my kids were little (and all the funny things they say) . Now they’re adults we often laugh together about their antics and I wish i could remember more.

Why can't you use consequences? The other tip is to use the positive version of the behaviour not the 'don't / stop /no

Eg please leave the clothes in the drier
Then strong stern voice - at his eye level so crouch down "DS I've asked you to leave the clothes in the direr or I'm going to shut the door
Then if he carries on, shut the door, game is over.

DS please walk nicely
DS I have asked you to walk nicely with me, please stay close and hold my hand or I'll have to carry you / go home.
Then do it.

Be boringly consistent, NEVER threaten something you won't or can't follow through and then follow through. Every. Single. Time.

That's the hard bit. That's why it's tough being a parent but my God it pays off in the long run. It's BRUTAL the first time you threaten to remove a bedtime story and they keep pushing - but it only happens once.

Time out isn’t recommended? Why not? We did the naughty step for ours. Admittedly it worked better for DS than DD who had a fiery temper when young but honestly I have 2 well behaved and respectful teens. None have given me a days trouble, they are never rude to me because we worked hard on correcting behaviour when they were little. We never smacked them at all, didn’t agree with it (I used to get smacked around the head which I felt was a terrible thing to do to a child who suffered terribly with migraines and even if it was the 80’s it was wrong) but of course we told them off and did naughty step.

Because it is all supposed to be gentle redirecting. This works for more compliant children. It does not work for some children who do need proper consequences.

We did warnings. If 3 ignored then time out or 'thinking time' at the bottom of the stairs.

Same in public but instead of a time out it was going straight home.

Kids need boundaries and consequences.

That was the only book which helped me parent my textbook ADHD child. Amazing and utterly grounded book

This is exactly what happened at preschool- a thinking chair and the visual sand timer. It gave the child time to calm down and then you could help them understand why what they did was unacceptable. Usually followed by a big hug and back to play.

I wonder how nurseries deal with challenging behaviour? (It is normally worse at home, in their safe space!)

I may be reading it wrong but it does sound that child does not respect your bounderies.

Child should not be afraid of you but should have clear pack order where they know parents put bounderies and they have to listen in certain situations.
They will test the limits, and if there are no limits they will keep pushing as they need limits to feel safe.
That does not mean child should listen at every comand like a police dog as you don't want people pleasing dependant, but there should be something in your voice to make certain things off limits.

Some children are strong willed (my DS) but if you make a point that some battles are only yours to win he may be less inclined to pick those. Cannot remeber the name of the book (if anyone knows title pls help) but it was about strong willed children needing extra strong bounderies and a lot of opportunities to show leadership (deciding what to wear, what to eat, where to go etc.)

Good luck, it is not easy having child who has a lot of character. Especially if is yiur first one [looking at you my diabolycal DS 💖].

See I think this is worse than smacking. It’s like mental torture. Whereas a smack is a short shock that immediately makes think: ouch, why did that happen. I’m obviously not taking about a beating, but a slap on the thigh with a loud NO would be enough to jolt the child into thought and they’d quickly learn that if they don’t listen and do as told, that this would happen.
my kids are grown up anyway so I won’t be smacking anyone! But I think mental torture is as bad, if not worse, than a quick smack.

I think the advice to start the sentence with their name so they focus is excellent and short sentences. Use "stop" rather than "no" (which is often a trigger word, because what you actually want is for them to stop). And rather than say "please" which means "if you please" / a plea, say "thank you". That sets an expectation rather than if it pleases them

This is developmentally normal. At 3yo, distraction and removal are your best techniques.

Sanctions are for serious things, really, and throwing the washing off the line is not serious.

Yes there is a difference , ds sat on the step to calm down when overwhelmed, as he learn’t how to calm down himself, or realised there was no point getting angry, and his vocab improved we used it less. It was never called the naughty step which has negative connotations, it was always I know you are upset/angry so sit there to calm down/feel better then we’ll talk about it. We never used the words time out either, but if used calmly by the parent it is pretty neutral.

@Blanketpolicy so there is no difference except for the name, which is what the poster asked. Naughty step / thinking time / thinking spot / time out... it's all the same - the kid sits in spot x for a certain period of time and calms down. The only difference is in language/ negative connotations.

Yes he is three but you do need to start as you mean to go on.
No is no.
Don't bother if you are not going to ensure he does what is asked of him. You need to be consistent.

Our Ds used to help with the washing he would get it out and 'hang it" on the maiden can you give him things to do to engage him.

I would lock one of the kitchen doors while this is his thing, if he keeps throwing the washing he goes in his bedroom, out of the way until he learns to be around the washing without throwing it around. He apologises then comes out to play. At 3 they understand the word No. they need to know their actions have consequences -

Ah yes, I can see the difference there for sure. No one could criticised that.